Wearing both ancient and modern

[Jock Scot]

What is/was the convention on a husband and wife wearing two different colorways of the same tartan, such as I like the modern colors but my wife prefers the ancient? We both wear Lockhart, woven by Mr. Dalgliesh in Selkirk, and are planning to have some photos taken in our woollens some time in the not-too-distant future, which I will post for the rabble to peruse.

That's absolutely fine.

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps a spot of explaining may help those that are having difficulty understanding why we Scots are not at all bothered with all this matching up nonsense. In this day and age anyone,say in the USA, who has the cash and the will,can go and buy your "instant" higland attire. So to the newcomer it seems right that your clanX tartan kilt,will match your clanX day plaid and on it goes and of course from a newcomers point of view,that makes complete sense.

Not to us Scots! We have been surrounded by tartan for the best part of 200 years.In that time clan tartans can,did and still do change and that's before you get into the modern,muted,weathered,ancient stuff.To us frugal Scots why throw away a perfectly serviceable plaid that great grandfather wore in 1890? It may not match the current clan tartan,but it is a clan tartan nevertheless, it most certainly will not match the colours of the current clan tartan because of age fading, storage failings, different dyes,different mills and maybe a completely different pattern,nevertheless it is a tartan of the same clan. If I buy a new kilt tomorrow in my clan tartan I will have no hesitation in wearing my father's,uncle's,Great Grandfathers highland plaid as it will be a tartan of the same clan, and almost certainly,in fact I guarantee, it will not match the tartan of my new kilt.I rather like it that way!

[BroosterB1]

Perhaps a spot of explaining may help those that are having difficulty understanding why we Scots are not at all bothered with all this matching up nonsense. In this day and age anyone,say in the USA, who has the cash and the will,can go and buy your "instant" higland attire. So to the newcomer it seems right that your clanX tartan kilt,will match your clanX day plaid and on it goes and of course from a newcomers point of view,that makes complete sense.

Not to us Scots! We have been surrounded by tartan for the best part of 200 years.In that time clan tartans can,did and still do change and that's before you get into the modern,muted,weathered,ancient stuff.To us frugal Scots why throw away a perfectly serviceable plaid that great grandfather wore in 1890? It may not match the current clan tartan,but it is a clan tartan nevertheless, it most certainly will not match the colours of the current clan tartan because of age fading, storage failings, different dyes,different mills and maybe a completely different pattern,nevertheless it is a tartan of the same clan. If I buy a new kilt tomorrow in my clan tartan I will have no hesitation in wearing my father's,uncle's,Great Grandfathers highland plaid as it will be a tartan of the same clan, and almost certainly,in fact I guarantee, it will not match the tartan of my new kilt.I rather like it that way!

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear clan as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear caln as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

Generally speaking septs wear the clan tartan. Bells, Browns, Baxters, Walkers, etc., are all septs of MacMillan and as such wear MacMillan tartan. If a Bell wore "Bell tartan" then he would be advertising the fact that he belonged to something other than Clan MacMillan (there is a Bell tartan, nothing to do with the Bell sept of MacMillan).

I do not claim to be any sort of an expert on tartan (an expert being someone who knows very much about very little), but I can't recall having heard of distinct "sept" tartans, although I suppose they could exist.

[Jock Scot]

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear clan as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

If the sept has a tartan of its own, then it should wear that. There is no need to wear anything else.Anybody from the "greater clan" who knows their clan history will/should recognize the sept tartan as part of the "greater clan".

[Jock Scot]

I think to many people are hung up on what tartan they should wear.What we should remember here is that there was no such thing as clan tartans pre 1800's.The clan tartans of today are modern tartans and the government tartans are a prime example.If you want to wear the kilt wear any one you like.Aye clan rivalries are a thing of the past but what I dislike about the Lindsay tartan is it's conection to the Black Watch.

There has been plenty of Black watch blood spilled just lately on yours and my behalf, so again I find your comments unnecessarily insulting.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

What Jock Scot says here makes a lot of sense:

Perhaps a spot of explaining may help those that are having difficulty understanding why we Scots are not at all bothered with all this matching up nonsense. In this day and age anyone,say in the USA, who has the cash and the will,can go and buy your "instant" higland attire. So to the newcomer it seems right that your clanX tartan kilt,will match your clanX day plaid and on it goes and of course from a newcomers point of view,that makes complete sense.

Now I have to admit I'd never given this much thought before, but the broad based popularity of wearing the kilt in North America is a relatively new thing-- certainly post WWII and probably something that didn't really get going until the 1960s, '70s, or '80s.

That said, the North American "new boys" are probably doing exactly what our umpty-ump grandfathers in Scotland did in 1822-- going crazy trying to look "right". Meaning this in the nicest possible way, an "instant" Scotsman in North America probably feels a far greater need to "look" highland than those of us who (often) make do with Uncle Bill's old kilt.

Now why is that? Because as Jock Scot has sagely pointed out:

...We have been surrounded by tartan for the best part of 200 years.In that time clan tartans can,did and still do change and that's before you get into the modern,muted,weathered,ancient stuff.To us frugal Scots why throw away a perfectly serviceable plaid that great grandfather wore in 1890? It may not match the current clan tartan,but it is a clan tartan nevertheless, it most certainly will not match the colours of the current clan tartan because of age fading, storage failings, different dyes,different mills and maybe a completely different pattern,nevertheless it is a tartan of the same clan. If I buy a new kilt tomorrow in my clan tartan I will have no hesitation in wearing my father's,uncle's,Great Grandfathers highland plaid as it will be a tartan of the same clan, and almost certainly,in fact I guarantee, it will not match the tartan of my new kilt.I rather like it that way!

So, if you are a newly minted "kiltie" don't worry about matching shoes to belts, or what colour balmoral best compliments the colour of your kilt, or fretting about mixing ancient with modern setts. Instead, wear you kilt with respect, don't treat it like a costume, and above all, be comfortable in who you are when you wear it.