Wearing both ancient and modern

[Jock Scot]

What is/was the convention on a husband and wife wearing two different colorways of the same tartan, such as I like the modern colors but my wife prefers the ancient? We both wear Lockhart, woven by Mr. Dalgliesh in Selkirk, and are planning to have some photos taken in our woollens some time in the not-too-distant future, which I will post for the rabble to peruse.

That's absolutely fine.

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps a spot of explaining may help those that are having difficulty understanding why we Scots are not at all bothered with all this matching up nonsense. In this day and age anyone,say in the USA, who has the cash and the will,can go and buy your "instant" higland attire. So to the newcomer it seems right that your clanX tartan kilt,will match your clanX day plaid and on it goes and of course from a newcomers point of view,that makes complete sense.

Not to us Scots! We have been surrounded by tartan for the best part of 200 years.In that time clan tartans can,did and still do change and that's before you get into the modern,muted,weathered,ancient stuff.To us frugal Scots why throw away a perfectly serviceable plaid that great grandfather wore in 1890? It may not match the current clan tartan,but it is a clan tartan nevertheless, it most certainly will not match the colours of the current clan tartan because of age fading, storage failings, different dyes,different mills and maybe a completely different pattern,nevertheless it is a tartan of the same clan. If I buy a new kilt tomorrow in my clan tartan I will have no hesitation in wearing my father's,uncle's,Great Grandfathers highland plaid as it will be a tartan of the same clan, and almost certainly,in fact I guarantee, it will not match the tartan of my new kilt.I rather like it that way!

[Jock Scot]

Personally I would not be seen dead in the Lindsay tartan I live about 1 mile from a battle ground where my lot chased the Crawfords back to their castle at Finavon.Also the Lindsay tartan is worn by the woman of the Black Watch.

Oh come off it! You have your likes and dislikes fair enough ,but we have plenty of Campbells and MacDonalds here that get on perfectly well without bringing up the various clan rivalries. Scotland has done pretty well to almost get rid of all this clan rivalry and whilst I am not suggesting for one second we should forget the past completely, Scotland should look forward, not backwards.I am sorry but I find your contribution and tone insulting.

[BroosterB1]

Perhaps a spot of explaining may help those that are having difficulty understanding why we Scots are not at all bothered with all this matching up nonsense. In this day and age anyone,say in the USA, who has the cash and the will,can go and buy your "instant" higland attire. So to the newcomer it seems right that your clanX tartan kilt,will match your clanX day plaid and on it goes and of course from a newcomers point of view,that makes complete sense.

Not to us Scots! We have been surrounded by tartan for the best part of 200 years.In that time clan tartans can,did and still do change and that's before you get into the modern,muted,weathered,ancient stuff.To us frugal Scots why throw away a perfectly serviceable plaid that great grandfather wore in 1890? It may not match the current clan tartan,but it is a clan tartan nevertheless, it most certainly will not match the colours of the current clan tartan because of age fading, storage failings, different dyes,different mills and maybe a completely different pattern,nevertheless it is a tartan of the same clan. If I buy a new kilt tomorrow in my clan tartan I will have no hesitation in wearing my father's,uncle's,Great Grandfathers highland plaid as it will be a tartan of the same clan, and almost certainly,in fact I guarantee, it will not match the tartan of my new kilt.I rather like it that way!

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear clan as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Jock Scot is right on the money-- come on lads, it's history, not hatred. The way forward for Scotland is just that-- FORWARD-- not mired in past, pretending to be aggrieved over some clan nonsense from centuries long past.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear caln as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

Generally speaking septs wear the clan tartan. Bells, Browns, Baxters, Walkers, etc., are all septs of MacMillan and as such wear MacMillan tartan. If a Bell wore "Bell tartan" then he would be advertising the fact that he belonged to something other than Clan MacMillan (there is a Bell tartan, nothing to do with the Bell sept of MacMillan).

I do not claim to be any sort of an expert on tartan (an expert being someone who knows very much about very little), but I can't recall having heard of distinct "sept" tartans, although I suppose they could exist.

[Jock Scot]

Perfectly understandable and prudent as well, why pitch some thing that is perfectly suitable, just because it's colors are not new a flashy.

On another note however, the difference between clan and sept tartans. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that as part of the greater clan, it was allowable to wear clan as well as sept. If sept y is part of clan X, why would there be a problem? Especially if the Sept was an important part of the greater clan?

If the sept has a tartan of its own, then it should wear that. There is no need to wear anything else.Anybody from the "greater clan" who knows their clan history will/should recognize the sept tartan as part of the "greater clan".

[Jock Scot]

I think to many people are hung up on what tartan they should wear.What we should remember here is that there was no such thing as clan tartans pre 1800's.The clan tartans of today are modern tartans and the government tartans are a prime example.If you want to wear the kilt wear any one you like.Aye clan rivalries are a thing of the past but what I dislike about the Lindsay tartan is it's conection to the Black Watch.

There has been plenty of Black watch blood spilled just lately on yours and my behalf, so again I find your comments unnecessarily insulting.

[Jock Scot]

Well if you are not too keen on the Black Watch, why don't you gird up your loins and take it up with them. I bet you are not man enough. If you cannot put up, then shut up.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Well if you are not too keen on the Black Watch, why don't you gird up your loins and take it up with them. I bet you are not man enough. If you cannot put up, then shut up.

Spot on, Jock. I never ceased to be amazed at the occasional vituperative out pouring of anti-Black Watch bile that one comes across from time to time on this forum. Like you, as a former soldier, I find remarks like these highly insulting.