Order of the Crown of Stuart

[McClef]

They seem fond of the the Divine Right principle and pretty Jacobite too.

But as they acknowledge that the line died out they could no doubt agree with Queen Victoria who could say "we are all Jacobites now."

Their gallery portrait of "Charles III" (Bonnie Prince Charlie) is most certainly NOT of him! (Look like another portrait of Charles I).

Also the protestant Stuarts (Mary II and Queen Anne) are not included in the gallery.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

They seem fond of the the Divine Right principle and pretty Jacobite too.

But as they acknowledge that the line died out they could no doubt agree with Queen Victoria who could say "we are all Jacobites now."

Their gallery portrait of "Charles III" (Bonnie Prince Charlie) is most certainly NOT of him! (Look like another portrait of Charles I).

Also the protestant Stuarts (Mary II and Queen Anne) are not included in the gallery.

In the case of Mary II her father, James II (VII of Scotland), was still alive when she ascended (some would say usurped) his throne.

James II died in 1701, and was succeeded in the succession by this son, James III and VIII of Scotland (Jacobite reckoning). In 1702 William of Orange (William III husband of Mary II) dies and is succeeded by Anne, daughter of James II and sister of James III. As there was an exisiting senior male line, Anne's technical position was that of usurper of her brother's throne.

So the Jacobites, being absolute legitimists, recognize Mary II and Anne as de facto monarchs but not as de jure sovereigns, hence their exclusion from the line of succession in the gallery on their website.

[Kilted in Maine]

I assume this is in no way associated with The Order of Crown Royal

[McClef]

In the case of Mary II her father, James II (VII of Scotland), was still alive when she ascended (some would say usurped) his throne.

James II died in 1701, and was succeeded in the succession by this son, James III and VIII of Scotland (Jacobite reckoning). In 1702 William of Orange (William III husband of Mary II) dies and is succeeded by Anne, daughter of James II and sister of James III. As there was an exisiting senior male line, Anne's technical position was that of usurper of her brother's throne.

So the Jacobites, being absolute legitimists, recognize Mary II and Anne as de facto monarchs but not as de jure sovereigns, hence their exclusion from the line of succession in the gallery on their website.

I said that they seemed pretty Jacobite but it is not a claim they actually make themselves on the website.

The de jure nature of Mary and Anne was, in law, established by the Bill of Rights and later the Act of Settlement in that the religion of the Sovereign determined their eligibility for the throne and this affected the normal practice of male preference primogeniture under which the males would normally have succeeded had they not been Catholic. Mary and Anne were still crowned Stuarts and should surely have been listed here even with the Jacobite qualification (de facto) stated.

Without this the list seems to be historically incomplete, irrespective of their POV.

[sathor]

recognize Mary II and Anne as de facto monarchs but not as de jure sovereigns, hence their exclusion from the line of succession in the gallery on their website.

Wow, I wonder just how many people beyond us even know the difference between those two things. (de facto and de jure) Its not something that comes up that often.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Wow, I wonder just how many people beyond us even know the difference between those two things. (de facto and de jure) Its not something that comes up that often.

The Jacobites, of course, refuse to recognize the validity of the Act of Settlement and base their thesis on the principles of "de jure et sanguines".

My personal take on all of this is:
PRACTICE SAFE GOVERNMENT, USE A KINGDOM

[Chas]

The Jacobites, of course, refuse to recognize the validity of the Act of Settlement and base their thesis on the principles of "de jure et sanguines".

My personal take on all of this is:
PRACTICE SAFE GOVERNMENT, USE A KINGDOM

That is one of funniest things I have read in a long time - and so true.

Regards

Chas