Single Box Compared to Double Box pleat in Yardage?

[Bugbear]

I can't tell from the web site if it is eight yard multiples or if you can order ten, eleven, or what ever. It says eight yard minimum, I think., and that sounds like you can order eight or more yards rather than eight, sixteen, etc.

[meinfs]

Ted, yes, it says a minimum of 8 yards and only 8 yards is available as an option. So I'd say ask Chris if he can make a single length of 10 or 11 yards...

[meinfs]

Oh ya, Mein, it helps, and thanks. I'm still looking at the numbers, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot more for the double box. I'm around 37" on hips and waist.

From what I understand, the double box has a little better swing than the single box. Is that correct?

37" at the hips would bring the double box down to about 4.8 yards.


I don't have experience in comparing the swing of a double-box vs a single-box of the same material and length, so I can't comment expertly on the swing. But in general, box-pleats in heavyweight wool have a good swing to begin with and I think it'll be better if not the same swing factor for a double-box. I'd say IMHO that this is not as big a factor as say, the look. I absolutely love the look of double-box pleats, especially Robert's and Lady Chrystel's, from whose work I derived inspiration.

[Bugbear]

Thanks Mein, and like I said, I'm exploring all the options I have, now, in the first goal of affording the fabric.

Robert did PM me and said that putting more yardage into the double box pleats results in better and better swing. That kind of makes sense.

However, I am not decided yet on going with the double box, and here is why. I will have to press the thing from time to time. I already have a bit of trouble with pressing a regular knife pleat, not that I can't do it. I have a feeling a single box pleat would be easier than a double or the knife pleat because of my vision problems.

[Bugbear]

Speaking of goals, it's funny. Last year, as the whole econemy melted down, I shifted my plans and decided to stay put out here. That ment I had to change my kilt plans. I'm kind of glad I did now because it's getting me to think a lot more about what I really want.

[Ancienne Alliance]

...That ment I had to change my kilt plans. I'm kind of glad I did now because it's getting me to think a lot more about what I really want.

...very wise indeed.


Best,

Robert

[Bugbear]

I think it will come out better in the end... just not faster.

[The Wizard of BC]

Ted,
I don't think you question can be totally answered with a firm, exact amount of fabric.

The of the amount of fabric used in a Kilt is not a set number. It does not always lend itself to a formula.

Now that I've said that my brain works best when it has numbers to work with. So here is what I do.

And please remember that this is totally different than the way a Traditional Kiltmaker does things.

A Traditional Kiltmaker takes a known amount of fabric. 4 yards double-width for example. They then lay out both Aprons, the Deep and Reverse Pleats, and then find out how much is left over.
They then use the Sett size (or one full repeat of the Tartan pattern) and depending on if they are pleating to the Stripe or to the Sett will figure out how many Setts there are in the remaining fabric and that will give them the size of the Pleat reveal. The Pleat Depth is what is left over.

What I do is determine the Pleat Reveal I want. That tells me how many Pleats the Kilt will have. I then know the width of the aprons so the total is the amount of fabric I will need. (Notice that a Traditional Kiltmaker starts with a given amount of fabric and adjusts Pleat reveal, where I set the reveal and let the total amount of fabric to change.)

For example, A Kilt I would make for myself would take 6.93 yards if pleated to the Stripe and 7.65 if pleated to the Sett. I would have aprons 16" wide at the waist and contain 26 Pleats with a 1" reveal. IF THE SETT SIZE IS EXACTLY 6".

Keep everything the same but change just the Sett size from 6" to 6 5/8" and the same Kilt will now take 7.38 yards pleated to the Stripe and 8.10 if pleated to the Sett.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THESE TWO EXAMPLES BUT THE TARTAN SETT SIZE.

Now let's switch to a Box Pleated Kilt.

If everything is perfect and the creases of the Pleats meet on the outside as well as on the inside of the Kilt each pleat width will be 1/3 of the Sett.

To look well a Box Pleated Kilt should have pleats somewhere between 2" and 3.5" wide.
If we keep with the same 6" Sett as in the Knife Pleat example above the box pleated Kilt with the same Tartan has a 2" wide Pleat.

The Problem comes with the Double Box Pleats Each Pleat uses 3/5's more fabric per Pleat. This would result in Pleats only .6" wide. Not good.

So we would have to use two Setts per Pleat or 12". This results in a Pleat 2.4" wide.

But it also uses 3/5's as much fabric per Pleat.

Here are the numbers I would come up with for my example Kilt sizes from above.

A Single Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
17" Aprons
13 - 2" Box Pleats
Total amount of fabric used 5.9 Kilt yards.

A Double Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
18" Aprons
11 - 2.4" Box Pleats
for a total amount of fabric of 6.16 Fabric Yards.

[Bugbear]

I can follow that, Wizard, and it gives me a general idea of what I'm dealing with on the fabric requirements. Thanks.

This is only one of the questions I need to ask, and only a part of what I am considering.

[WClarkB]

Here are my notes from thinking through the options on this:

I am fairly close to being able to afford the fabric yardage for a kilt in the Bear tartan, which is minimum eight single width yards of sixteen ounce "Jura" wool. This has me thinking about my options.

I could buy the fabric, have it shipped to me, then ship it to a kilt maker when I am ready. That would start over with the saving for the cost of having it made etc, and spread it all out in steps.

I could decide to keep saving and have a eight yard traditional made through Bear Tartan, which is the easiest option for me. Not having to worry about shipping fabric around or storing the fabric might be worth the peace of mind. I don't make these kind of purchases without having saved up the money first, so it could be a while before I reach that option.

Still, there are some benefits of being able to work directly with the kilt maker: more customized etc... Plus, I would probably have some left over fabric to play with, or possibly order an extra yard of fabric. I could have the kilt maker order the fabric, and send me the leftover fabric and scraps along with the kilt, and that might work out well.

I'm pretty sure that I would want a hand sewn traditional, at least for this time around, so I will pass on the five yard option through Bear Tartan. However, there is the option of having a four yard, box pleat kilt, hand sewn and traditionally constructed, made up by a kilt maker over here in the States. Same options as before, but I could possibly share the fabric and cost with someone else looking for a box in Bear. However, there is the option of having a double box pleated kilt made, but I don't know a lot about that option.

I'm not exactly sure what to do.

So the conclusion was ask a bunch of questions.

Another consideration is the pound<-> dollar conversion
the pound is the cheapest it has been (in dollars) now as it has been in at least 5 years. It is wandering at 1.4 to 1.5 USD per pound and has been ast high as 3. With the Obamania running as it is; manipulation of these rates may occur rapidly and they are likely to be unfavorable.

My recommendation is: find a kiltmaker u can deal with and buy the cloth, save the price of construction once the cloth is on this side of the pond.

Secondly, how good are u with a needle and thread? I am just finishing my first kilt using "The Art of Kiltmaking" and altho not an "easy" thing; it is entirely do-able.