Why does a kilt cost what it does? (re-hash for new folks)

[RockyR]

What about the following ones you missed:

1. Customs Duties (if you're a US or Canadian maker who orders material from the UK) which generally don't get charged to the customer
2. SHIPPING charges on the material (if you're a US or Canadian maker who orders material from the UK)
3. Electric, phones, international phone bills, internet
4. Insurance - health insurance, business insurance
5. Advertising - print, online ads, business cards, local ads, yellow pages
6. Accountant (for those of us who are accounting retarded or hate doing taxes)
7. Taxes (federal, state and local)
8. Cost of creating a website - paying a programmer and buying a shopping cart program
9. HOSTING for the website, security certificate, etc
10. 'Gateway' fees and other online credit card accepting fees for taking cards through your website.
11. Exchange rate (when it's bad, do the companies raise their prices or just suck up the lower marjins)
12. Risk of getting fraudulent orders (when you ship out an order to a fraudulent addres and the cardholder challenges it, the business loses the merchandise and can not collect it). We just got hit with a $420 chargeback from a fraudulent order that went to Russia (cardholder was in Japan). That money is all lost with no hope of retreival.
13. Bounced checks
14. buying store fixtures (you have to have some way to display your goods)
15. Free shipping - does your kiltmaker offer free shipping? We offer it for orders over $200
16. Miscilaneous: Printer Ink, Computer, Printer, paper, packaging labels (stickers), boxes (free for Priority mail customers ), postage scale, sticky notes, pens, paper clips, staplers, and various office supplies
17. Coffee... Steve and I may spend more on Coffee than chain smokers do supporting their habbit. But it helps us get our kilts done quicker!

and so on... these are the fun parts of owning your own business!

[Nanook]

What about the following ones you missed:

1. Customs Duties (if you're a US or Canadian maker who orders material from the UK) which generally don't get charged to the customer

Same applies to most textiles. All of the other enumerated costs too are standard to pretty much any retailer.

The truth of the matter "Why do kilts cost what they do" is that the price is what the market can accept and what sellers can make a profit from. The price of the cloth is what is the market can accept and those mills that could not rationalize and adapt their production to meet the demands of the market have since shut their doors. Today's kilts and jackets are not made to the same standards of previous generations but too are more rational in their use of labour. Highland jackets are more or less nearly all made using automation and even the "bespoke" jackets from the best tailors in Scotland and most of the Saville Road use short-cuts, machines and other means that would have been considered unacceptable by premiere master tailors of previous generations. What sells today on the Road is fine cloth and not invisible but expensive workmanship. People today are sold on silly little comparatively low labour features such as bright and quirky coloured linings (the rage among City bankers), buttons with holes on the cuff--- a , in general, silly feature that most master tailors would not have bothered with--- and a number of idiosyncracies that are demanded as visible traits to distinguish the one jacket against another.
Things are, on the whole, cheaper today because they must be cheaper because the market is not willing to pay more. This applies not just to textiles but to pretty much the entire consumer market. Mix now willingness to pay with ability to pay (or invest) and one sees the cause of the collapse of the Scottish textiles industry.

[RockyR]

Same applies to most textiles. All of the other enumerated costs too are standard to pretty much any retailer.

Agreed... I was pointing out that Kiltmakers have not just the cost of making the kilt, but other 'small business' costs as well.

[slohairt]

Same applies to most textiles. All of the other enumerated costs too are standard to pretty much any retailer.

The truth of the matter "Why do kilts cost what they do" is that the price is what the market can accept and what sellers can make a profit from. The price of the cloth is what is the market can accept and those mills that could not rationalize and adapt their production to meet the demands of the market have since shut their doors. Today's kilts and jackets are not made to the same standards of previous generations but too are more rational in their use of labour. Highland jackets are more or less nearly all made using automation and even the "bespoke" jackets from the best tailors in Scotland and most of the Saville Road use short-cuts, machines and other means that would have been considered unacceptable by premiere master tailors of previous generations. What sells today on the Road is fine cloth and not invisible but expensive workmanship. People today are sold on silly little comparatively low labour features such as bright and quirky coloured linings (the rage among City bankers), buttons with holes on the cuff--- a , in general, silly feature that most master tailors would not have bothered with--- and a number of idiosyncracies that are demanded as visible traits to distinguish the one jacket against another.
Things are, on the whole, cheaper today because they must be cheaper because the market is not willing to pay more. This applies not just to textiles but to pretty much the entire consumer market. Mix now willingness to pay with ability to pay (or invest) and one sees the cause of the collapse of the Scottish textiles industry.

While jackets are certainly made in this fashion, I don't think it is fair to say that kilts today are not made to the standards of past generations. True, there are many inexpensive options available now, but many kilt makers still make kilts as they were made 100 years ago.

[Barb T]

Today's kilts and jackets are not made to the same standards of previous generations but too are more rational in their use of labour.

I challenge you to sit with me for the time it takes me to make a kilt and still arrive at this conclusion.

And Alan's final kilt costs were predicated on a kiltmaker getting a 50% wholesale discount on $60/yard tartan. I just received the Lochcarron USA wholesale price list for 2009, and prices have actually gone down this year because the dollar is doing better against the British Pound. Despite that, the _wholesale price_ that I will pay this year per yard of double width 16 oz Lochcarron tartan ranges from $43-$55 depending upon the rarity of the tartan. And that does not include shipping.

So, for a _common_ tartan, my wholesale cost this year for enough tartan for an 8 yard kilt will be more like $190 (not $120), if you include what I pay Lochcarron to send the tartan to me. And most tartans that I make kilts from are actually the $50-55/yard wholesale tartans (the "select" and "rare select' ranges). My wholesale price for the rare select tartans for an 8 yard kilt this year will be on the order of $240-250 wholesale, including shipping.

And don't forget that tartan and labor isn't the whole picture. I have to buy buckles and straps, canvas and lining, basting thread, carpet thread, etc. It doesn't sound like much, but it does add up.

[slohairt]

I challenge you to sit with me for the time it takes me to make a kilt and still arrive at this conclusion.

And Alan's final kilt costs were predicated on a kiltmaker getting a 50% wholesale discount on $60/yard tartan. I just received the Lochcarron USA wholesale price list for 2009, and prices have actually gone down this year because the dollar is doing better against the British Pound. Despite that, the _wholesale price_ that I will pay this year per yard of double width 16 oz Lochcarron tartan ranges from $43-$55 depending upon the rarity of the tartan. And that does not include shipping.

So, for a _common_ tartan, my wholesale cost this year for enough tartan for an 8 yard kilt will be more like $190 (not $120), if you include what I pay Lochcarron to send the tartan to me. And most tartans that I make kilts from are actually the $50-55/yard wholesale tartans (the "select" and "rare select' ranges). My wholesale price for the rare select tartans for an 8 yard kilt this year will be on the order of $240-250 wholesale, including shipping.

And don't forget that tartan and labor isn't the whole picture. I have to buy buckles and straps, canvas and lining, basting thread, carpet thread, etc. It doesn't sound like much, but it does add up.

I've always found it a bit strange (and annoying) that the Strome 'Select' and 'Rare Select' categories contain far more tartans than 'Standard'. Many of them I wouldn't even consider rare. It seems to be a bit of an arbitrary distinction. I prefer how the House of Edgar's Old & Rare tartan range are usually odd variations of tartans found in old pattern books.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I've always found it a bit strange (and annoying) that the Strome 'Select' and 'Rare Select' categories contain far more tartans than 'Standard'. Many of them I wouldn't even consider rare. It seems to be a bit of an arbitrary distinction. I prefer how the House of Edgar's Old & Rare tartan range are usually odd variations of tartans found in old pattern books.

It's not arbitrary. In this context, "rare" doesn't really mean that the tartan pattern itself is particularly rare or hard to come by. It's all a matter of supply and demand.

If it is a tartan that Lochcarron is sure to get a lot of demand for, like say MacDonald modern, they will wisely produce greater quantities of it at a time, making the cloth less expensive per yard. This is their "standard" Strome pricing.

On the other hand, if it is a tartan they are not likely to get much request for (like Turnbull Hunging ancient), they won't produce as much of it at a go, which makes it somewhat more expensive per yard. This would be either their "rare" or "select" price categories.

Same quality cloth. Just a different economics of scale. Don't think of it as being charged more for certain tartans so much as being given a discount for certain more popular tartans.

Very often it will be a particular variation of a tartan that is priced as "rare," because it is not as popular. For example, Sutherland Hunting modern is standard price, while Sutherland Hunting weathered is "rare."

I, for one, am glad that Lochcarron chooses to offer the range of 16 oz tartans that they do. Most woolen mills offer a larger selection of 13 oz tartans, with a relatively small selection of 16 oz.

[slohairt]

It's not arbitrary. In this context, "rare" doesn't really mean that the tartan pattern itself is particularly rare or hard to come by. It's all a matter of supply and demand.

If it is a tartan that Lochcarron is sure to get a lot of demand for, like say MacDonald modern, they will wisely produce greater quantities of it at a time, making the cloth less expensive per yard. This is their "standard" Strome pricing.

On the other hand, if it is a tartan they are not likely to get much request for (like Turnbull Hunging ancient), they won't produce as much of it at a go, which makes it somewhat more expensive per yard. This would be either their "rare" or "select" price categories.

Same quality cloth. Just a different economics of scale. Don't think of it as being charged more for certain tartans so much as being given a discount for certain more popular tartans.

Very often it will be a particular variation of a tartan that is priced as "rare," because it is not as popular. For example, Sutherland Hunting modern is standard price, while Sutherland Hunting weathered is "rare."

I, for one, am glad that Lochcarron chooses to offer the range of 16 oz tartans that they do. Most woolen mills offer a larger selection of 13 oz tartans, with a relatively small selection of 16 oz.

I agree with much of what you say, Matt, but I tend to think of it as a surcharge as opposed to a discount. Perhaps they should have used different terminology, as 'Standard' implies a median or normal state.

I meant 'arbitrary' in the sense that some mills offer 'Tartan A' as a rare/special tartan, while others offer the same tartan as a 'standard' choice. It's just unfortunate that Strome's 'Standard' category happens to be the smallest.

Yes, it is good that Lochcarron offer a huge selection of 16 oz. No one else really does. Some mills don't offer it at all.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I agree with much of what you say, Matt, but I tend to think of it as a surcharge as opposed to a discount. Perhaps they should have used different terminology, as 'Standard' implies a median or normal state.

I meant 'arbitrary' in the sense that some mills offer 'Tartan A' as a rare/special tartan, while others offer the same tartan as a 'standard' choice. It's just unfortunate that Strome's 'Standard' category happens to be the smallest.

Yes, it is good that Lochcarron offer a huge selection of 16 oz. No one else really does. Some mills don't offer it at all.

Well, think of it this way. I haven't counted them all out, but the size of Lochcarron's "standard" 16 oz range probably corresponds roughly with the size of House of Edgar's entire 16 oz range. All those additional "rare" and "select" tartans, which make up the greater number of what Lochcarron offers in 16 oz, would require custom weaving by any other mill, which of course means more $$$.

Not too many years ago, Lochcarron offered two Strome ranges -- a double width and a single width line. The tartans offered in double width would be the equivalent of their "standard" strome tartans today. The more rare ones were only offered single width.

Today they offer all of their Strome tartans double width. So even though the "rare" line is more expensive per yard, the actual cost of their cloth has in fact gone down because now a kiltmaker only has to buy 4 yards of the cloth for a typical 8 yard kilt, not a full 8 yards of the single width. The total cost of the cloth for the kilt ends up being less expensive.

So things have actually gotten better in this regard.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

People today are sold on silly little comparatively low labour features such as bright and quirky coloured linings (the rage among City bankers), buttons with holes on the cuff--- a , in general, silly feature that most master tailors would not have bothered with--- and a number of idiosyncracies that are demanded as visible traits to distinguish the one jacket against another.

For those who may not have had experience with bespoke tailoring, lining material is inevitably chosen by the customer-- as far as practical cuff buttons are concerned, I believe this practice to be nearly universal along the 'Row, with the possible exception of Anderson & Sheppard. Many gentlemen tuck their hankie up their sleeve, and an opening cuff makes this much easier to do; it also allows one to show a bit more cuff, something Percy Blakeney, Bart., would have approved of I'm sure. Lining a suit isn't free of labour costs, and cuffs that actually button, as opposed to stitching three or four buttons on a sleeve, costs as much as a decent Jermyn Street shirt.

As far as this being something the "master tailors would not have bothered with" it is exactly this sort of "silly little...feature" that sets the master tailor apart from the suit factories that turn out suits that often only fit where they touch.

Because these features aren't generally available on the suits sold in the men's department of your local department store, those that desire them are willing to pay whatever it costs to have what they want, ie: a quality suit.