Help me pick a caubeen

[macwilkin]

It is confusing, but the two phrases were both originally Irish translations for the "Irish Volunteers" and were later used by multiple other groups, sometimes at the same time.

Óglaigh na hÉireann - very literally "young male warband of Ireland" - Irish for the IDF (amongst other groups).

Fianna Fáil - Fianna literally means the followers of Fionn (mac Cumhaill) and symbolically means a warband/soldiers and Fáil means destiny (as in Lia Fáil - stone of destiny, now known as the Stone of Scone).
Taken together, Fianna Fáil = "soldiers of destiny" - now the name for Ireland's main political party, but also the "FF" in the centre of the capbadge of the IDF:



Confused? Who ever said we Irish were straightforward?

That was a very straightforward post explaining the FF, INMHO.

Your last sentence reminds me the old joke about Ireland and "The Emergency" -- World War Two:

"Who are we neutral against?"



T.

[thanmuwa]

Your last sentence reminds me the old joke about Ireland and "The Emergency" -- World War Two:

"Who are we neutral against?"

T.

That reminds me of when I started in Uni in Belfast... I was a bit worried because I was in Northern Ireland for the first time (most Southern Irish people at the time had never been and knew very little about NI apart from what was on the news), I resolved that if anyone asked me what religion I was, I would reply "Atheist!". What I didn't realise was the the next question was always "But are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

[dfmacliam]

I appreciate everyones advice and comments. I have learned a lot from you all. I have decided to order one of each... A green caubeen from one site and a black caubeen, with red ribbon trim and a red hackle (per Jim Byous suggestion) from JByous. I am very comfortable with my choices because of the good information I got from this thread.

Thank you all for helping me make my choices, and I look forward to learning more from those of you, who choose to educate.

[J Byous]

Here are my options.... A green caubeen or a black with a red band. The black intriques me because it resembles the dress blue uniform that the Marines are so famous for. Match that with a red hackle and my Marine Corps clan badge.
DaNeil

DaNeil

Your Marine Caubeen is on the way. Thanks to you we are looking into making caubeens and tams to commemorate all the service branches here in the US. As well, we are looking into special designs for pipe band ranks – Pipe Major, Pipe Sergeant, Drum Sergeant and Drum Major. Let us know how you like yours and give us suggestions for changes and designs.

J Byous

[O'Callaghan]

And just a point of clarification; the Republic's armed forces are known as the Irish Defence Forces, not the "INA". In the Irish the name is Óglaigh na hÉireann. And, to further clarify, in the IDF, caubeens are known as "glengarries". So while the Irish Air Corps Pipe Band wears Scottish glengarries, Army pipers technically also wear glengarries as well. As a reference/source, I would recommend The Irish Defence Forces since 1922 by Donal MacCarron and Bill Younghusband, Osprey Men-at-Arms Series No. 417. It is one of the best one-volume works on the IDF available, and it does discuss the glengarry/caubeen issue.

Regards,

Todd

When I said INA I was talking about the Army, not the defence forces as a whole, which I know very well are the IDF. The INA and the IRA split from oneanother in the civil war, the former being the uniformed army of the Irish Freestate as then was, and the latter being the rebels who were against partition. It was these two I was trying to distinguish between. If there even is any different current term for just the Army, and there may not be, I don't know what it is, but AFAIK the IDF includes the Air Corps and the Naval Service as well. If they don't have a term to describe just the Army, then INA will do, as anyone who knows the history will know what it means.

I also knew perfectly well that the Army piper's caubeen was officially listed as a glengarry, but you know that just confuses people. Just because some quartermaster mislabelled it and the term stuck doesn't mean it looks like one.

It should be obvious by now that I am not terribly into militaria, just someone trying to describe things in common sense terms.

[macwilkin]

When I said INA I was talking about the Army, not the defence forces as a whole, which I know very well are the IDF. The INA and the IRA split from oneanother in the civil war, the former being the uniformed army of the Irish Freestate as then was, and the latter being the rebels who were against partition. It was these two I was trying to distinguish between. If there even is any different current term for just the Army, and there may not be, I don't know what it is, but AFAIK the IDF includes the Air Corps and the Naval Service as well. If they don't have a term to describe just the Army, then INA will do, as anyone who knows the history will know what it means.

The Irish Army is simply known as "The Irish Army". Whilst the Free State/Pro-Treaty forces during the Irish Civil War were sometimes referred to as the "National Army", it doesn't appear to be the current term today. And yes, the IDF does include the Air Corps and the Naval Service.

I also knew perfectly well that the Army piper's caubeen was officially listed as a glengarry, but you know that just confuses people. Just because some quartermaster mislabelled it and the term stuck doesn't mean it looks like one.

The very fact that is confusing is why I have mentioned the IDF "glengarry". Many military units have their own distinct customs and pecularities; on this forum numerous times we have discussed them for the Scottish regiments. You may see it as "confusing", but I find it interesting.

Todd

[dfmacliam]

DaNeil

Your Marine Caubeen is on the way. Thanks to you we are looking into making caubeens and tams to commemorate all the service branches here in the US. As well, we are looking into special designs for pipe band ranks – Pipe Major, Pipe Sergeant, Drum Sergeant and Drum Major. Let us know how you like yours and give us suggestions for changes and designs.

J Byous

Jim, welcome to the community! I appreciate you and your business very much, with your customer service I believe you will fit in here. Thank you again for your patience, your ideas and taking the time to put together new options, not only for me, but other veterans.

[Good Egg]

Units of he British Army wears black and blue/black Caubeens. Some of the reserve units in Nor'n Iron wear them instead of the berets that their English counterparts wear, just as some reserve units in Scotland wear TOS instead of berets.

[fortcollinsjerry]

you might want to consider a WW II style tam from Penny's of Thunder Bay;

my goodness, Thunder Bay! I haven't heard of that place for ages. There use to be a large motorcycle rally up there. Great hospitality and lots of neat roads to ride.

[O'Callaghan]

Another endorsement for J. Byous. I've been wearing one of their caubeens for several years, and an quite happy with it. Great folks to do business with, too.
Alternatively, since you'd like it to comemorate your military service, you might want to consider a WW II style tam from Penny's of Thunder Bay;

For some reason, I must have skipped this post, until I saw someone else quote it. $25 Canadian for a caubeen at Penny's of Thunder Bay is a very reasonable price. However, the picture you have shown is not their caubeen, but their khaki tam.