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1st June 09, 12:59 AM
#21
If you don't mind, I'll stir the ashes on this simmering debate, mostly to see if we can re-visit the original topic, but also to bow in respect to a few people, and a few things.
-- Phil, and Macmillan--, if i may be so informal, I am moved by the depth of your knowledge of history, as well as your writing ability. I must however, give a tip of the hat to Cajunscot for having the sand to say the 'umentionables'.
The clan society in Scotland is going to be seen different by different strata of society, in the past as well as the present. The 'romance' angle is not however, the sole perogative of the ignorant, the expatriot, nor the gentry. It belongs to everyone, and it does NOT mean that people were not hurt by the system; it's a matter of heartfelt loyalty.
Clan chiefs usually swore allegiance to the King, but it was always touchy, because of the 'first among equals' idea that was, and is held. The original Stewart, a knight from Dol, was successful in driving out the 'vikings' and so was granted his title, that was later made hereditary. He earned it, in other words.
By marriage, they later became Royal.
It's a complex issue- bound to evoke the monarchy- because the Scots have lost theirs.
-Sorry, but that's the way I, and almost every Scot I have spoken with, feel, although it has never been said quite that way.
It was not just due to religion, but remember; religion is what the unwashed masses will die for, and even to today, financial coups are dressed in religious robes.
There certainly were monetary angles to the hanoverian succession being adopted; Please do not forget that Englands switch to 'fractional reserve banking' was in the offing (which makes the Darien affair pale by financial comparison when you take the long view). The effects of that system being adopted by the 'Monarchy' are still with us today.
But to return to our thread; Scots I am friends with, or have known briefly in Scotland on travels, have (in my opinion AND experience), had a burning nationalism that is bound to evoke pure Jacobite oaths. Tanistry, if the the issue ever did arise, could even be used to support a new Stewart lineage, and don't think of that as a joke. I think the crown under glass in Edinburgh could easily have hundreds of thousands--if not millions of Scots out in the streets to swear allegiance to it, or at least vote for it. (homerule might win someday, if it's packaged with a separate monarchy).
Loyalty (not just romance), and nationalism, runs deep in Scotland from what I've seen.
In the so-called 'rebellions' of the '15', and the '45', (more like wars for independance)many, many past disputes were forgotten. Many,many Scots risked (and lost) everything-Titles, lands, even their lives, to support this so-called 'romantic notion'.
Would you cast aspersion on those peoples most cherished beliefs? Rabbie Burns held them. His father held them(lost everything in the '45'). His grandfather did too(was in the '15'). What IS the ideal Scot, if not fiercely loyal?
My ancestors were descended from a branch of the Stewart family that turned Protestant, and was sent to Ireland (what they call the Plantations). When the Risings began they suddenly turned to Stewart loyalty above religious considerations, and lost everything, coming to America to start fresh (I say this to show why I bothered to write all this about such a complex subject).
I cannot leave this without pointing out that the injustice and brutalities of the system were part and parcel of life in historic times--nothing unusual. (America 'the free' didn't have Civil Rights passed until 1968!)
So, while the system may have been ugly in it's workings, history shows that when a call to a "higher purpose" went out (as in the Risings), even clan chiefs were willing to lay down their lives to show they believed in it.
I find that so-called 'commoners' still feel this, even when many generations from Scotland. That the clan system is now often reduced to booths in 'fairs' and highland games is not so much ignoble; It is simply a way for Everyone to show that they feel something deep is going on there, and they would like to be a part of it.
I believe even something as simple as the wearing of the kilt, honors that deep emotion.
Thank you for your time, even if you do not agree, perhaps- especially if you do not agree.
I apoligize to any I have offended, feel free to ri[p] and {tear} this apart; it's an open forum.
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