Sports Cars Vs Kilts

[BEEDEE]

Another thread started to get off topic with discussions of sports cars instead of kilts. So in response to the F-H.C.A.G's comment:

Ours is an 8 cylinder. Does that make it a sports car?

I was reminded that the old East German Trabant came out with a 24 valve model. Might have been a sports car, except that it had 8 valves in the engine and 16 in the radio.

Brian

[ccga3359]

Sexy looking car Brian, did you get a lot of dates ?

For images and video...

[beloitpiper]

Kilts are more timeless than sports cars...except for the Aston Martin DB5 Vantage...that thing is tasty...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Probably the best "universal" definition of a sports car was that put forward by Road & Track magazine more than a half century ago:

"A sports car is a dual purpose automobile, designed to be suitable for everyday driving, yet have a competition potential which will give it a chance for a class win on the (road racing) track."

What makes a sports car a "sports car" is the ability to be competitive on the track without any significant modification.

[sydnie7]

Kilts are more timeless than sports cars...except for the Aston Martin DB5 Vantage...that thing is tasty...

Let's not be forgetting the E-type Jaguar, on permanent display at NY Museum of Modern Art. . . many, many other beautiful vehicles exist but the original E-type (prior to US-mandated modifications) certainly defines "timeless." IMHO and in MOMA's NSHO

[sydnie7]

Probably the best "universal" definition of a sports car was that put forward by Road & Track magazine more than a half century ago:

"A sports car is a dual purpose automobile, designed to be suitable for everyday driving, yet have a competition potential which will give it a chance for a class win on the (road racing) track."

What makes a sports car a "sports car" is the ability to be competitive on the track without any significant modification.

Ah, but "competitive" in what sense? Showroom stock vs. cars of the same class? I think R&T's definition shows its age. . . visions of a field of Priuses (Prii?) come to mind. . . I have a great article on this topic on file somewhere, when I locate it I'll post a link.

To go really OT, I work at the Long Beach GP each year in a behind-the-scenes capacity. One of the fellows who drove a Prius "pace car" came back in complaining that, with four people aboard, three of them had to get out and push

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Ah, but "competitive" in what sense? Showroom stock vs. cars of the same class? I think R&T's definition shows its age. . . visions of a field of Priuses (Prii?) come to mind. . . I have a great article on this topic on file somewhere, when I locate it I'll post a link.

Without parsing my answer I'd suggest that racing is all about grouping equally matched cars in single classes.

Using SCCA autocross guidelines one finds, for example, that H Stock contains a number of different cars, but all with similar performance capabilities on an autocross course. So, an Austin Healey 3000, a Fiat 124 Spyder, a Porsche Speedster and a TR6 all run in the same class, and each car has a reasonable chance of winning its class.

My 1963 Morgan +4 four seat tourer runs in E Stock, mostly against Mazda Miatas although there are twelve other makes of car in this class as well. Generally speaking I am the oldest driver (62) in the oldest car (46 years old) in my class. Not withstanding the fact that the front suspension on my car was designed 100 years ago, and that in comparison to a Miata the suspension and handling of my car is positively biblical, I am still posting highly competitive class times, and have finished as high as third.

Having raced everything from H Prod (Frog Eye Sprite) up to an including A/SR (Lola T-70 Mk 3B) in SCCA, I don't find the R&T definition of a sports car at all dated. If you can drive it all week, then race it on the weekend, without any modifications then it is a sports car. Once you have to modify it to have a reasonable chance of winning (or even staying on the track), then it has become something else-- a competition car.

I believe that SCCA rules prohibit racing in kilts.

[greenman11]

Ok, I will throw my 2 cents on this one. Qualifications are 17 years auto repair on English and German autos 1968-1985, Certified Journeyman rated mechanic.
A sports car is a two seat fixed or drop head coupe. In america that woud be a two seat hard top or convertable.
Examples: not inclusive

MG Midget, MGA, MGB, MGC
Triumph TR6, TR4, TR3, Spitfire, Stag
Austin/Healy 3000, sprite
Sunbeam Tiger
Morgan +4
Jaguar E-type
Porsche 356,911,912
Volkswagen 914-4, 914-6
Chevrolete Corvette
Ford, early Thunderbird
Any vehicle with more then 2 real seats, could be a sports sedan whether two doors or four. An example of this would be the Mini Cooper or MG 1100 and the Triumph 2000. SCCA classes not withstanding, this would be a general laymans clasification.

Oh for the days long gone of real sports cars,

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Oh for the days long gone of real sports cars,

Couldn't agree more-- I think it is this lack of "real" sports cars that has made the component car industry really take off in the last 10-15 years. What is interesting is that 70% of all "kit cars" sold are copies of the, now ubiquitous, Cobra.

An open car with two seats, and one which, when new, could be driven from the showroom to the track and win races.

[Dan R Porter]

WRX STI will take all of those in a real race: dirt, gravel, tarmac, bumps...