Re-enactment / historical question

[M. A. C. Newsome]

True, but I wonder just what the progression to the Great Kilt was and how long it took. In all honesty I cannot see that the Highland Gaelic Scot would progress from wearing something like contemporary English dress to wearing something like a kilt. Not that it could not happen that way, it is just a huge (impossible?) stretch of the imagination to see how it could have happened.

A much easier thing to see would be a progression from the léine and brat, something that was known to be worn by the Irish in earlier times as you yourself write, to a kilt. Still, I guess we will never really know.

I never said that Highland Scots went from wearing English-style clothing to wearing the feilidh-mor. What I said was that in the period you are looking at (14th and 15th centuries), Lowland (English speaking) scots would have dressed like their English contemporaries, while Highland (Gaelic speaking) Scots would have dressed like their Irish contemporaries, which is where we find the leine and brat. It is this fashion that would later give rise to the feilidh-mor, and the first evidence we have of that is in 1594.

I'll only point out that we do have several different references describing what the Highland Gaels wore from the first half of the sixteenth century and none of them mention anything that might be considered an early feilidh-mor. So, going by the evidence we have (which is all we can go by, really), I'd feel fairly confidant saying that the feilidh-mor was not worn in the first half of the 1500s.

So if one is doing reenactment, I can see how wearing the feilidh-mor for, say, a 1580s impression or even 1570s might be justified. But not 1540s. And certainly not 1400's. This was the point I was trying to make.

As for asking a local group, well, it seems that this sort of question can be a bit of a religious issue, if you know what I mean when I say that, and I am reluctant to bring it up for that reason.

Oh well, may be I will just visit and not partake...

Mark

You haven't really posted that many details about the group that you would be reenacting with, so maybe there is something I'm not seeing. But it seems to me that if one of the members has invited you to participate and you don't want or are not able to invest in the proper clothing, they should not be offended if you ask if there might be anything they could loan you for the occasion. I know a lot of reenactment groups keep a loaner stock on hand for folks coming out the first time.

[gilmore]

...What I said was that in the period you are looking at (14th and 15th centuries), Lowland (English speaking) scots would have dressed like their English contemporaries, while Highland (Gaelic speaking) Scots would have dressed like their Irish contemporaries, which is where we find the leine and brat. ...

I would think that those living in the Lowlands at that time would be quick to tell you that they spoke Scots (or Lallans), not English.

[BoldHighlander]

...has already been given. Talk to the group that your going to reenact with and find out their criteria & level of authenticity. Then beg, borrow, or steal from them before jumping in whole hog

As a living historian myself, I would highly recommend this article on authenticity & documentation: http://www.re-enactmentevents.com/re-enact/Proposal.php
when I first got involved in ACW (American Civil War or War Between the States) out here on the left coast, it was still somewhat of a farb fest, but there were those of us (myself included) who researched our units, & I gathered reams of 1st person documentation of what our unit (2nd Kentucky Cavalry - Morgan's Raiders) wore, utilized as weapons, & behaved generally.

Any way, read the article & follow that great advice on contacting the host group.....and have fun with it!

[Salvianus]

As a living historian myself, I would highly recommend this article on authenticity & documentation: http://www.re-enactmentevents.com/re-enact/Proposal.php[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]

I like that article a lot, Alan Gutchess summarises the research approach to living history very effectively. I particularly like his advice to minimize the effect of any speculation you have to make.

For me, re-enactment is about giving as acccurate a portrayal as current research allows, with room for reasoned inference and variety in interpretation: thats part of the fun for me, but plenty of folk prefer to focus on craft or weapon skills, or just immersion in the campfire life without spending all their time in the library, so just go for a simpler, low status impression and there's not much to argue with.

So my advice is to aim to achieve the humblest outfit - a simple tunic (a big poofy shirt down to kilt length might do it ) and a plain brown thin leather belt with a D buckle. If you aren't happy with the belt hoik the tunic up to overhang and obscure it. If you want a mantle, I'd avoid a proper tartan plaid, but you might be able to drape a rough weave plain or simple check blanket over your shoulder, cutting off any modern zig zag machine stitching and maybe pin it on the right shoulder or so it goes in a loop under the opposite armpit with a thin stick sharpened to make a big thorn shape. With some rough string and a bit of care folding it that can replace a bag/pocket. Shoes are always the hardest, but you might be able to pick up something basic enough: to me they look a bit like leather slippers - low with flat external soles. I've done an event in bare feet, but only the once...

You might find William E. Wilson's page on the subject useful:
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/celt-clothing/

Have a good time

[Morris at Heathfield]

I would think that those living in the Lowlands at that time would be quick to tell you that they spoke Scots (or Lallans), not English.

I doubt they would it find it a matter of controversy, considering they themselves normally called their language "Inglis" at the time. They only referred to their speech as "Scottis" occasionally, when it was necessary to distinguish it from the speech of those who spoke Southern.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would think that those living in the Lowlands at that time would be quick to tell you that they spoke Scots (or Lallans), not English.

I wrote "Highland (Gaelic speaking)" and "Lowland (English speaking)" to underscore the fact that I was talking about the cultural Highland/Lowland divide rather than the geographic one. At various times in Scotland's history the Highland culture and Gaelic language would have extended well into territory that we might consider geographically in the Lowlands.

But you are correct, the language spoken by those "English" speaking Lowlanders would have at various times been referred to as "Scots" or "Scottis" or "Doric" or "Lallans" or "Inglis" or even "English." I simply didn't feel the need to use every possible identification of the language/dialect (depending on how you define it).

~M

[Tetley]

I never said that Highland Scots went from wearing English-style clothing to wearing the feilidh-mor. What I said was that in the period you are looking at (14th and 15th centuries), Lowland (English speaking) scots would have dressed like their English contemporaries, while Highland (Gaelic speaking) Scots would have dressed like their Irish contemporaries, which is where we find the leine and brat. It is this fashion that would later give rise to the feilidh-mor, and the first evidence we have of that is in 1594.

Sorry, I changed the subject slightly without telling anyone


Mark

[Tetley]

You haven't really posted that many details about the group that you would be reenacting with, so maybe there is something I'm not seeing. But it seems to me that if one of the members has invited you to participate and you don't want or are not able to invest in the proper clothing, they should not be offended if you ask if there might be anything they could loan you for the occasion. I know a lot of reenactment groups keep a loaner stock on hand for folks coming out the first time.

That is because I am not entirely sure which one it will be. However, from discussions with re-enacters both recently and from way back I am reluctant to bring up a subject that has been slightly contentious.

I do not think that any of the groups that I am likely to be visiting would have "loaner" kit, again judging from past conversations and I think for now that I will just go along in my everyday attire and see what is going on. Then I can judge what my next move will be.

Admittedly, the whole re-enactment scene is a bit of a mystery to me.

Mark

[macwilkin]

That is because I am not entirely sure which one it will be. However, from discussions with re-enacters both recently and from way back I am reluctant to bring up a subject that has been slightly contentious.

I do not think that any of the groups that I am likely to be visiting would have "loaner" kit, again judging from past conversations and I think for now that I will just go along in my everyday attire and see what is going on. Then I can judge what my next move will be.

Admittedly, the whole re-enactment scene is a bit of a mystery to me.

Mark

Generally, loaner "kit" belongs to individuals -- an extra pair shoes, trousers, etc. Most reenactors have a closet full of gear, and generally keep some for the very purpose to loan out to "fresh fish".

T.

T.