Fraser & Kirkbright (custom tartan weavers)

[Fit2BKilted]

Thanks again to everyone, and especially the esteemed kilt-makers of our community, for your candid opinions!

I had been aiming for 16-18oz. cloth in the first place; so, that's reassuring. Relaxing pleats as a trade-off for a soft hand seems a balanced feature for a mill to base a brand on.

If my suspicions are correct, I will likely need custom dyed yarns to execute my design the way it is intended:


Do mills usually charge a heavy premium on custom dye-lots over-and-above the set-up costs for commissioned runs?

[Barb T]

I had been aiming for 16-18oz. cloth in the first place

Not sure whether you've misunderstood what Matt and I are saying. F&K tartan doesn't feel as heavy to us as other tartan of the same listed weight, so, if you're really after 16 oz, you'd want to be sure to order their regimental weight (18 oz). As far as the soft hand goes, that's a matter of preference. I prefer kilting tartan with a hard hand, but you might not.

[The Wizard of BC]

When you are talking to a weaver about a special weave Please, Please spend a lot of time sending color swatches and yarn samples back and forth.

If the Tartan you want has very specific colors then it would perhaps be a good idea to get the pantone number for the exact color you want.
If that fails, then find a swatch of fabric in the exact color or a paint color chip that is exactly the same and send that along.

And talk to the weaver. Talk to them a lot.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Another consideration -- I noticed from the URL of the image you just posted that you are using Scotweb's tartan designer. If you pay attention to their "terms and conditions" you will note the following statement. "By saving and/or publishing a new tartan design using this system, you are granting Scotweb Marketing Ltd an exclusive right to weave, license, or otherwise use your design commercially."

I think the key word here is "exclusive." Which means that the decision whether or not to use F&K to weave your tartan may be a moot point. By using the Scotweb designer, you may have given them the exclusive rights to weave your design, unless you can make some other arrangement/agreement with them.

Always read the fine print....

[Fit2BKilted]

Another consideration -- I noticed from the URL of the image you just posted that you are using Scotweb's tartan designer. If you pay attention to their "terms and conditions" you will note the following statement. "By saving and/or publishing a new tartan design using this system, you are granting Scotweb Marketing Ltd an exclusive right to weave, license, or otherwise use your design commercially."

I think the key word here is "exclusive." Which means that the decision whether or not to use F&K to weave your tartan may be a moot point. By using the Scotweb designer, you may have given them the exclusive rights to weave your design, unless you can make some other arrangement/agreement with them.

Always read the fine print....

Actually... I did read the fine print, and the image was only an approximation of my design [that I composed independently in advance of inputting an approximation of the thread-count into their system] because I actually want a few odd-numbered thread counts; so, if I have it woven the way I want it, it won't be the same design ;-) so, fine print or not, I'm in the clear that way AFAIK.

Besides, I'm not too concerned about whether or not they choose to weave the approximated design I had input onto their site commercially---the fine print also says that they must pay me royalties if they do... And, on top of that, I never publicized the approximate design I had input in their Gallery. If you have any additional insight into the nuances of ScotWeb's legal claim to my work, I am all ears...

I have since updated my earlier posting with an image produced entirely on my own computer, and stored on my own server, and deleted the approximation thereof from ScotWeb's server.

[Fit2BKilted]

Not sure whether you've misunderstood what Matt and I are saying. F&K tartan doesn't feel as heavy to us as other tartan of the same listed weight, so, if you're really after 16 oz, you'd want to be sure to order their regimental weight (18 oz). As far as the soft hand goes, that's a matter of preference. I prefer kilting tartan with a hard hand, but you might not.

I think I may have understood you correctly; however, I have very limited experience with conventional worsted woolen tartan fabrics; and hence I will need to do some research to confirm my presumed preferences. Once I have my tartan woven; I would like to commission 2 box-pleated kilts in it from Mr. Newsome (to different stripes) and a modern style 'tank' from someone such as yourself or another of the fine kilt-makers with similarly excellent reputations around here. And then, my daughters will doubtless want kilted skirts made from it as well (my eldest is becoming extremely involved in Irish and Highland dancing) My wife has also indicated that she would like to have a hooded-cape made in it---and that is what cemented my commitment to heavy-weight cloth, since she is perpetually too cool, and needs more insulation than I presume a lighter fabric might afford. I, on the other hand, will happily brave -30C Ottawa winter days in my kilt... Sometimes I wonder how much my metabolism contributed to her agreeing to marry me

[Fit2BKilted]

When you are talking to a weaver about a special weave Please, Please spend a lot of time sending color swatches and yarn samples back and forth.

If the Tartan you want has very specific colors then it would perhaps be a good idea to get the pantone number for the exact color you want.
If that fails, then find a swatch of fabric in the exact color or a paint color chip that is exactly the same and send that along.

And talk to the weaver. Talk to them a lot.

Thanks for the caution Steven. Fortunately, I've worked in the graphic design industry (I still produce books for self-publishing authors) and I expect that colours are just as critical, if not more so, in weaving as they are in print. I also expect that there are similar approval conventions in the textile and print industries. Am I correct?

I want the purple portions of my design to approximate the bloom of the Scotch Thistle as vividly as possible using only 2 colours; so, I fully intend to expend a lot of effort to achieve that... Unfortunately, I have not yet migrated to Mac-brand home computers; so, I don't have the advantage of Apple's screen-colour-matching technology to help me.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Actually... I did read the fine print, and the image was only an approximation of my design [that I composed independently in advance of inputting an approximation of the thread-count into their system] because I actually want a few odd-numbered thread counts; so, if I have it woven the way I want it, it won't be the same design ;-) so, fine print or not, I'm in the clear that way AFAIK.

Besides, I'm not too concerned about whether or not they choose to weave the approximated design I had input onto their site commercially---the fine print also says that they must pay me royalties if they do... And, on top of that, I never publicized the approximate design I had input in their Gallery. If you have any additional insight into the nuances of ScotWeb's legal claim to my work, I am all ears...

I have since updated my earlier posting with an image produced entirely on my own computer, and stored on my own server, and deleted the approximation thereof from ScotWeb's server.

Ok, just so long as you are aware. I've had a few people recently talking with me about tartans they designed on Scotweb only later to find out that Scotweb had the exclusive weaving rights. They hadn't noticed that in the "terms and conditions" and were taken by surprise, so I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that concern.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think I may have understood you correctly; however, I have very limited experience with conventional worsted woolen tartan fabrics; and hence I will need to do some research to confirm my presumed preferences. Once I have my tartan woven; I would like to commission 2 box-pleated kilts in it from Mr. Newsome (to different stripes) ...

If you wanted me to do a couple of box pleated kilts in the tartan, I wouldn't mind working with their 18 oz cloth at all. As I said, I've made a few kilts from that cloth and it works out just fine.

[Dixiecat]

And then, my daughters will doubtless want kilted skirts made from it as well (my eldest is becoming extremely involved in Irish and Highland dancing

A highland dancer does not wear a kilted skirt. The dress code that guides the dancers of the SOBHD (which is all of North America) specifically states kilts. There is some leeway granted of course for pre-premiers and the young and tiny. But, Barb is quite correct, a kilt made from tartan over 13oz can be very heavy to dance in.

Btw, your design is quite eyecatching and could prove to be quite attractive to dancers.