craftsmen/artisans vs Cheap goods

[Bugbear]

I knew that you couldn't be that pessimistic, DWFII.

* BTW, it is the pessimistic; there is no hope for the world; everything is wrong with everything now a days; that felt insulting to me. *

[DWFII]

I knew that you couldn't be that pessimistic, DWFII.

* BTW, it is the pessimistic; there is no hope for the world; everything is wrong with everything now a days; that felt insulting to me. *

Ted,

I am that pessimistic...you missed the part about me doubting that the numbers are significant.

I would also like to think I am a "hard-eyed realist." Not for me the lala land, pollyanna-esque, somewhere-over-the-rainbow, whistling past the graveyard...and all that. That's just telling yourself stories--fairy tales, mostly. And once you get into the habit of doing that you can convince yourself of anything...including the notion that the movie version of the Braveheart tartan is historically justified...especially with a good backstory. Or that a $100.00 kilt is as good as, or on a par with, a $500.00 kilt.

I don't dwell on the negative but I'm quick to see asymmetry and contradiction. All that's part of being a Tradesman (craftsman)--someone who works with his/her hands. To do that you must be critical...self-critical. You must have an internal hierarchy of "good, better, best," with very little room for greyscale. And know where your work sits within that hierarchy. And how to get getter.

Without that perspective, the whole notion of quality loses meaning.

All that said, I am also eternally hopeful. I consider it both a strength and a weakness. I will continue to preach and teach and write and oppose the forces of entropy and barbarism to my dying day...even knowing it's a losing cause. Not because I'm particularly noble or some knight in shining armour but simply because the alternative is too bleak to contemplate.

[tyger]

I am the grandson of a sharecropper. William Barnett Goodwin raised his family cropping cotton on shares. If that sounds shocking to you, that's fine with me, because it is pretty much shocking to me too. I am 56 years old. It wasn't that long ago.

Posters to this thread have identified 3 groups: people who make do for themselves in myriad self-sufficient ways, people who make money or barter for goods through a skill, practice, or trade, and people who do neither. I have no doubt that each of us can correctly guess which group is the largest. And while the future is always hard to predict, I think that most people who know where they have come from are not blind to the directions that the future offers.

When I decided to get a kilt, and accessories, I decided that I had to have a craftsman-made sporran, belt, buckle, and so forth. How hard it is to find a metalsmith to make a buckle for you? How hard it is to find a buckle that isn't chrome, steel, cast pewter, epoxy, or fake "silver." How hard was it 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago? I'll bet your answer was quite correct.

Ever-diminishing trade resources puts a demand upon those same resources, much the same way that the last library of books will be in demand for those who want to hold a book in their hand. One can actually see that coming.

I surely do wish and pray that there will always be people who are willing and able to do good things, the hard things, and the distasteful things that others choose not to do. The future that we make for ourselves and our children will depend on it.

[Bugbear]

Ted,

I am that pessimistic...you missed the part about me doubting that the numbers are significant.

I would also like to think I am a "hard-eyed realist." Not for me the lala land, pollyanna-esque, somewhere-over-the-rainbow, whistling past the graveyard...and all that. That's just telling yourself stories--fairy tales, mostly. And once you get into the habit of doing that you can convince yourself of anything...including the notion that the movie version of the Braveheart tartan is historically justified...especially with a good backstory. Or that a $100.00 kilt is as good as, or on a par with, a $500.00 kilt.

I don't dwell on the negative but I'm quick to see asymmetry and contradiction. All that's part of being a Tradesman (craftsman)--someone who works with his/her hands. To do that you must be critical...self-critical. You must have an internal hierarchy of "good, better, best," with very little room for greyscale. And know where your work sits within that hierarchy. And how to get getter.

Without that perspective, the whole notion of quality loses meaning.

All that said, I am also eternally hopeful. I consider it both a strength and a weakness. I will continue to preach and teach and write and oppose the forces of entropy and barbarism to my dying day...even knowing it's a losing cause. Not because I'm particularly noble or some knight in shining armour but simply because the alternative is too bleak to contemplate.

I understand where you're coming from now.

[WeaselMender]

I have been a skilled craftsman for over 25 years now. I do not work at my craft after trying to make a living as a blacksmith 3 times on my own. The issue each time was I can do the work or I can market the work but I do not have time to do both. I shall however keep my skill up and continue to teach others as I can.

As to people and prices there is a proverb that says there are only 2 blacksmiths that ever went to hell, one hit cold iron, the other didn't charge enough. In the years that I did the show circuit I found that if I got tired of something not selling, raise the price it will sell before the day was out.

Value is something that people do not understand any more. Value is not price it is utility and quality, something has no value if it does not serve the puropse it was bought for, or breaks or becomes unusable before the job is done.

Weasel :ootd:

[DWFII]

As to people and prices there is a proverb that says there are only 2 blacksmiths that ever went to hell, one hit cold iron, the other didn't charge enough. In the years that I did the show circuit I found that if I got tired of something not selling, raise the price it will sell before the day was out.

Value is something that people do not understand any more. Value is not price it is utility and quality, something has no value if it does not serve the puropse it was bought for, or breaks or becomes unusable before the job is done.

Weasel :ootd:

It's funny, almost every craftsman you ever talk to will agree and every non-craftsman look at you like you're crazy if you're asking a fair price.

My old motto is "If you value (price) your work low, others will value it low, as well."