US Campaign Ribbons

[J Pendleton]

Gentlemen, if I may? The difference between the USCG Tartan and the other military tartans is that is is officially recognized by the USCG. It is considered a uniform article which is why it is listed in our uniform regulations...and yes, the regs have been recently updated...the Pipe Band wears articles specific to the Pipe Band but we have USCG pipers who wear their uniform with the USCG tartan kilt. I am not in a position to get into heavy discussion about various branches. To the best of my knowledge, we are the only branch of service who has an officially recognized tartan. Not trying to stir the pot....just hoping to help clarify the Cdr's point....he is correct; the regs are not specific to the Pipe Band anymore....

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

You know, this discussion comes up every couple of years, and what it usually boils down to is someone saying "I don't care what the regs say, no one is going to tell me what I can wear."

Now I fully accept that you are trying to clear the air and not stir the pot. But what you are saying doesn't seem to be supported in the FEB 2009 USCG regs (a copy of which is on my desk). If you don't have a copy, you can check it out on line. I checked with the USCG office of public affairs, and they had no knowledge of an official USCG pipe band; they did however direct me to the web site of the U.S. Coast Guard Pipe and Drum Band, Inc.

This band is a private company that is affiliated with the USCG only in so far as it has permission to wear the USCG tartan, and requires all members to be members of the USCG, the USCG Aux, or retired USCG. If you do not belong to one of those three groups, you may not be a member of their band. Their website clearly states that they are not a part of the USCG.

I can see how some might be confused and believe that the dress regulations for the pipe band might be official USCG uniform regulations, especially as whole chunks of the band's regulations are lifted, word for word, from and older version of the official USCG regulations. But this similarity of name, and borrowed dress regulations, does not alter the fact that the band is a civilian organization. And even though the kilts they wear are made up in USCG tartan, they are items of civilian clothes, as defined in COMDTINST M1020.F, date of issue FEB 2009.

USCG uniform regulations prohibit the wearing of civilian clothes with the USCG uniform. The uniforms of the USCG are clearly defined and illustrated in the manual, and in no instance are the kilt, sporran, hose, etc., mentioned as being authorized items of the USCG uniform.

So, until or unless the USCG amends its uniform regulations to allow officers, petty officers, and ratings to dress like members of a Highland Infantry Regiment, I will have to rely on the published regulations.

And I would suggest others do the same.

[J Pendleton]

I do not wish to debate you, sir. Clearly you have a copy of the regs that I just pulled up online. However, when first published, I read what the Commander quoted. Whether there has been a revision since then, I have no idea. Since I have no information to support what I believe I, too, had read and I have no official say in Coast Guard uniform regulations, I shall respectfully remove myself from this discussion.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I do not wish to debate you, sir. Clearly you have a copy of the regs that I just pulled up online. However, when first published, I read what the Commander quoted. Whether there has been a revision since then, I have no idea. Since I have no information to support what I believe I, too, had read and I have no official say in Coast Guard uniform regulations, I shall respectfully remove myself from this discussion.

Which is exactly what I'm doing as well.

[dfmacliam]

Veterans Affairs has initiated a program called "Veterans Pride" patterned after the Australian and New Zealand program, where veterans wear their medals in civilian attire on holidays to promote Veteran Pride..
Veterans Pride, VA guidelines

I know these guidelines are specific for Holidays, but it leads precedence to wearing medals in civilian attire.

I believe the subject took a wrong course with the assumption of wearing a kilt as part of the military uniform, when I believe the original poster asked about her father wearing his medals with a kilt.. as directed by the Veteran Affairs, encouraging Veterans to wear their medals in civilian attire, which the kilt is definately part of this catagory.

I was reading in the Marine Corps uniform guidelines and it authorizes former military to wear medals in civilian attire.
USMC REGS clearly state:
a. Men. Miniature medals may be worn on the left lapel of the civilian evening coat on ceremonial occasions, but only when strictly appropriate to the occasion. On the full dress and tuxedo coats, miniatures will be worn centered on the wearer's left lapel, placed horizontally and one inch below the end of the collar gorge. The top edge of the holding bar will completely cover the buttonhole. If current styles preclude wearing on the lapel, miniatures will be placed in the same relative position as if there was a lapel.
b. Women. Miniature medals may be worn on civilian evening attire on ceremonial occasions, but only when strictly appropriate to the occasion. Miniatures will be worn in approximately the same position where they would be worn on the uniform. If current styles preclude the wearing of miniatures in a place approximating the position where they would be worn on the uniform, miniatures will not be worn.
c. If a second row of miniatures is worn, it will be placed one inch below the first row. In no case will more than two rows of miniatures be worn on civilian attire.

Now of course, these are Marine Corps directives, and all services have their own directives, but of course it may be safe to say, if the Marines have guidelines on wearing medals in civilian attire, it could possibly be safe to say the other services have these simular guidelines.

[Detroitpete]

This is all just opinon--

Getting back to the original poster's statement, he's looking to outfit his father. I'd say let dad decide what to do and not do with his medals, minis and ribbons. Help point him toward regulations, but in the end, its up to him.

Many of us who have served in the armed forces and received medals take these things personally. As a boy, I often wondered why my grandfather kept his medals in a drawer about as ceremoniously as a used eraser. After he passed away, I researched his military service. He served in some of the bloddiest actions in WWII. He had his reasons for how he kept his memories.

It wasn't until I ended my service that I understood. I'm not telling anyone else what to do with medals they earned. But for me--the last thing I would want to do is to place them on a civilian garment and walk about with them. They mean something more to me than that.

Some day if my young nephew and niece want to know about them, and they're ready to hear, I'll sit down with them and explain what they were won for. My hope is that it may serve to help them understand the cost of serving one's country. Then I will give the medals to them so they don't forget.

Again, just my own opinion--let dad decide what he wants to do.

[macwilkin]

It wasn't until I ended my service that I understood. I'm not telling anyone else what to do with medals they earned. But for me--the last thing I would want to do is to place them on a civilian garment and walk about with them. They mean something more to me than that.

I think there is some confusion here as to when medals and decorations are worn on mufti. In the UK and the Commonwealth, they are only worn on Remembrance Day, ANZAC Day, various regimental days, church parades and other appropriate events. I can't imagine why anyone would find fault with ex-servicemen displaying their medals on said days.

The late George McDonald Fraser has a wonderful epilouge in his memoir of his WWII service with the Border Regiment, Quartered Safe Out Here in which he discusses the 50th anniversary of WWII and the gathering of the "old and bold". His comments about wearing his gongs and how he heard a grandchild cheering for his grandfather on the march past that would move even the hardest heart.

Respectfully,

Todd

[Detroitpete]

I can't imagine why anyone would find fault with ex-servicemen displaying their medals on said days.

I hope my posted opinion didn't lead to the assumption that I think wearing medals/minis/ribbons for functions is wrong. It's just not something I would personally do. My main point is that I thought the original poster should allow the decision to be made by his father.

Respectfully,

-Mark

[macwilkin]

I hope my posted opinion didn't lead to the assumption that I think wearing medals/minis/ribbons for functions is wrong. It's just not something I would personally do. My main point is that I thought the original poster should allow the decision to be made by his father.

Respectfully,

-Mark

Mark,

No worries; I just wanted to clarifiy why medals and decorations are generally worn in Commonwealth nations on mufti.

T.

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

I think there is some confusion here as to when medals and decorations are worn on mufti. In the UK and the Commonwealth, they are only worn on Remembrance Day, ANZAC Day, various regimental days, church parades and other appropriate events. I can't imagine why anyone would find fault with ex-servicemen displaying their medals on said days.

Sorry to take this off topic a little, and with the greatest respect to the US servicemen / women, from a former member of the commonwealth services.

http://medals.nzdf.mil.nz/medalsinnz.html

Medallic recognition is hard to obtain due to strict requirements and limitations in commonwealth forces.

There are no ribbons for passing basic training, branch specific training, or anything along those lines, just no ribbons period for anything other than medallic recognition.


This, IMHO, is the reason for the showing on those specific days that Todd has mentioned above (this is from my own experience). Then after that day, back in the box they go for a another year...

And honestly, if there is not a church service for a fallen friend, or something along those lines, you will not see medals, ANZAC day not withstanding.

However as Mac' Rath' has stated multiply times on these forums, all the guff about what to wear will be on invitations...

Even then, I don't wear them, I wear them one day a year, ANZAC day.


Phil C