On the wagon... Any tips?

[CDNSushi]

Corey,

Some good advice and helpful words... Maybe I should have clarified a little more in my initial post a wee bit further just so people aren't too worried about me.

Having grown up in an old, European family, drinking is just as much a part of life as bread and water, whether it's wine with supper or a beer after work. They never (to my recollection) EVER got drunk even once when I was growing up, and even now, myself, I RARELY get drunk. I hate the feeling -- it's awful... Although I do usually have one, maybe two drinks a day. My drinking is much more along the lines of what I grew up with. Also, like my dad, I never binge drink, even on weekends.

My goal right now is not to stop drinking completely and forever, but rather, I would compare it more to giving up chocolate for Lent, and at the end of it all, feel good about having had the self-discipline to do so.

But again, Corey -- thanks for your kind concern and I'm glad that your experiences have taught you so much about something that can be such a serious problem for many!

Jim

[dfmacliam]

I can only say... if its worth stopping... you will... the substituting thing does not work.. it will just lead you back in... just tell yourself you will do it.. and have a bit of support... someone who gives you words of encouregment... its how I stopped smoking... I was feeling sick and the smoking didn't help... so I put them down... when I had the urge to light up... others told me not too.. and inturn I became support for them on their desire to quit..

[CDNSushi]

My dad quit smoking years ago... But his method of doing so isn't statistically proven as being very effective... He just stopped cold turkey.

Cold turkey is how I stopped drinking Coke too. One day I just decided that I had had enough, and that was it... I think that method requires a certain kind of personality maybe.

[dfmacliam]

as for the Jones thing.... hmmmm I believe its not so much the beer, but the comfort factor you been engrained too... its what you done, your dad has done.. its what you find comfortable... more physcological than the desire/need for alcohol.. I do not believe my reasons for not drinking would match yours... my biological father was an alcoholic.. and I had vowed to be completely different from him.. its that desire that keeps me from drinking.. but don't get me wrong.. I have had to deal with my addictions.. food was mine.. and it can be just as dangerous to your body as anything else.. I turned to my own spirituality, and my Native American traditions.. to focus my energy on.. my brother has chosen to direct his energy into his martial arts.. whatever someone finds that helps bring out that inner peace... everyone is different.. but the end result is the same...

[Riverkilt]

Okay, an old drunk here who now works in the business of helping folks who NEED to stop drinking.

First, run from near beer. Don't drink it. Not only is it foul tasting it does have alcohol in it, just like decaf has caffeine in it. Near beer has 0.005% alcohol. So there is still alcohol in it which will affect your medications. Bottom line, a six pack of near beer has the same alcohol in it that a can of regular beer does. Not good if your alcohol is contraindicated for your meds.

And, sorry to tell you that if you miss it that much you probably have a problem. Social drinkers don't miss their booze when they're not drinking.

There are lots of drinker's check ups available on line.

American Medical Assn says if you're drinking more than four beers (or four shots) at one sitting you are binge drinking. That usually freaks people out since that's just a warm up for many of us.

We're talking chemistry and poison here. Alcohol is a poison. Same alcohol in your booze as in Lysol and Listerine (Kills germs) and racing fuel and gasoline in the winter.

The alcohol that makes us feel so good is an explosive poison.

The human liver will ALWAYS metabolize the poison alcohol into an even more potent poison called acetaldehyde. Then the liver breaks the acetaldehyde down into acetic acid/vinegar, then water.

Its a four step process that takes ONE HOUR to metabolize/break down/get rid of the alcohol in one shot or one can of beer.

When we drink more we back up the alcohol in our blood and that's what gives us "that feeling." Alcohol goes to every cell in our body except our hair and nails that have grown out. It goes inside our bones and inside our teeth. Every cell gets drunk. Not good if that cell is the one that tells your heart to beat, or is a muscle cell in your heart that needs to be coordinated, or a muscle cell in your arm or legs that needs to be coordinated while we drive.

And, as mentioned, long term use of alcohol will cause terminal damage. I had a client that died at 22 from Pancratitis. He was a tough bull rider out of central California. He thought the doctor who told him he would die if he drank again was full of it. He drank again and died. A client just buried her sister who died at 29 of cirrhosis of the liver.

Alcohol is a powerful poison. If you've developed a tolerance - HAVE to Have a lot (more than four drinks a night more than four times a week for men and three and three for women) that's a medical criteria for alcoholism.

If you have hangovers - that's a medical criteria for alcoholism.

If you keep trying to quit drinking but can't stay quit - that's a medical criteria for alcoholism

If you find yourself drinking more than you intend to or over a longer period than you intended to - that's a medical criteria for alcoholism.

If booze has become a very time consuming part of your life - hanging out at the bars, being a "connoisseur" of some carrier vehicle for alcohol, being hung over - that's a medical criteria for alcoholism.

If booze is causing you to miss work, social, or recreational time because you'd rather drink, or you're too hung over, or you're fired or not welcome because of your boozing - that's a medical criteria for alcoholism

And the most scary, most telling medical criteria for alcoholism is if you have a medical condition (or psychiatric condition) that's caused or made worse by booze and you drink anyway....that's a key indicator for me. The stuff is killing someone and they still can't stop.

The scary news is a person only has to qualify for THREE of the above seven criteria to be diagnosed as an alcoholic - or more properly "alcohol dependent."


The reason the drinking age is 21 and not 18 like everything else is that the human liver doesn't mature until its 21. Many of us have been heavy drinkers in our teen years and became alcoholics by beating up on our baby livers with massive quantities of booze.

Many alcoholics inherit the disease. I happen to come from generations of alcoholics. Its no surprise that I am too. The odds are about 70% that a person with an alcoholic parent will also become an alcoholic.

And, of course, anyone can drink enough booze often enough to become an alcoholic. Often slowly, over the years as tolerance rises. Kind of like the kid who first tries a cigarette at age 12 and coughs his lungs out. But he persists and by the time he's 22 he's smoking a pack or more a day.

And, as far as quitting, science has shown quitting all addictions at once is more effective than quitting one at a time. Sadly, most recovered alcoholics die of lung cancer. Nicotine kills five to one over booze.

And science has also shown that quitting cold is about 200 times more effective than tapering off.

If you're looking for support there's a group of sober kilties in the groups on this forum.

If you want more open your phone book to the white pages and look for your local number for Alcoholics Anonymous and give them a call. We're just drunks helping other drunks. No rules, no dues, no president, no membership card. Total anarchy - but it works.

Or you can Google up AA on the Internet and find the local meetings near you. Just normal people, a warm fellowship like this board, only face-to-face.

Nothing causes alcoholism. But ingesting the chemical alcohol causes hundreds of fatal diseases. The good news is it can be arrested.

The bad news is that science, medicine, phsychiatry, and religion totally failed at helping alcoholics over centuries. The only thing proven to work is another alcoholic. We help each other stay sober....hence the AA meetings.

There's an old saying in AA. There are two years I never want to repeat - my last year drinking and my first year sober.

If you have quit drinking its not like a light switch. Takes your body years to readjust. Some says as many years as you drank.

Some immediate effects are things like sleep disturbance - almost certain. Short term memory loss, having things just fall out of your hands, out of body experiences, loss of directional ability. Not everyone gets them all, but most get some. Just normal.

And watch the caffeine intake. A lot of folks get sober and load up on caffeine then get so wired they think, if this is sobriety - forget it!

Happy to get specific with anyone - feel free to PM me.

Hope I haven't preached. Lives are at stake as we well know from our recent sadness.

Ron

[Heming]

My favourite virgin drink is two parts blackcurrent juice to one part lime juice topped up with soda water or fizzy mineral water. Very refreshing!

[BroosterB1]

What Ron Said!

I am not going to repeat something that a guy with a lot more experience than I have, but I will say this: if you can hold off the booze for 90 days with little or no positive effect to your mental health, your general attitude or even just feeling clearer headed, then you probably don't have a problem with alcohol.

However, if you find you are missing it, thinking about it when you really should not, looking forward to the time you can drink, feeling agitated because you can't drink, feeling resentful, or a good case of the "why me's", then you might have more of a problem than you want to admit to.

Thats ok. I did. Big time.

In addition to every thing Ron said, alcohol is a depressant, and long term use acts exactly that way. I know, I spent a couple of years wondering if I was crazy, or if I would ever feel normal.

After almost five months of no booze, I can say this "WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT SO LONG?". Things are not perfect but at least I can face them sober.

I used to kid about "Killing Brain Cells" now I may still have killed a whole bunch, but I can think clearer, feel better and wake up with out a head ache, upset stomach or feeling terrified of what the future might bring.

I guess that's the biggest change, I'm not scared about the future. I may not know what is going to happen, but I don't worry about it like I used to, and that's worth all the booze I don't drink anymore.

I'll just say this, if you think you have a drinking problem, you have a drinking problem. The only way to find out is to stop and see what happens. You might find out that you don't miss it. If you find out that you do have a problem, contact me, or Ron, or anyone in AA. We will help. Why? We've been there, thats why.

God Bless.

[CDNSushi]

as for the Jones thing.... hmmmm I believe its not so much the beer, but the comfort factor you been engrained too... its what you done, your dad has done.. its what you find comfortable... more physcological than the desire/need for alcohol..

I think that there's a lot to think about in that sentence. I've never even thought about it like that before... It would certainly explain why I enjoy the taste but not the effects of alcohol... It's as I've said -- I really dislike being drunk. I haven't been drunk many times in my life, but each time I have, it's really been awful. And what Riverkilt said about 4 drinks did shock me, but not because that is considered binge drinking, but because I just can't imagine having 4 drinks at one sitting.

I think that what I'm facing is almost like a family/cultural expectation of what I should be rather than a dependence on alcohol. But It's been another 2 days since I put up this post, I'm still on the wagon, and I'm finding that the jones from when I first wrote this post is almost not there anymore. My wife has been in Canada for about a week now, so I've been in the house alone, and literally ALL my friends are away on holidays, and with no one around but me, it seems that I've had no desire to drink either. Maybe it is more social than anything.

Anyway, I was at the doctor today and he gave me more medication so it looks like I'll be on the wagon for a while longer... It's really not so bad. The only thing I have a craving for right now is a spicy hot-as-blazes Indian curry! hehehe

Thanks for all the support though, everyone. Good stuff!

[cessna152towser]

No need for me to repeat what has been said already.
I got to the stage where I felt I was beginning to drink too much and I tried cutting down or short spells of abstinence but ultimately you will never give up an addiction such as alcohol until you really want to. Even when I had liver inflammation and was told to abstain for two months I only managed to stay off the drink for six weeks. The turning point for me was when my father becam terminally ill from gullet cancer and died at the age of 85. When I asked the doc the next morning how come a life long teetotaller dies of a drinker's illness he said that if you live that long something in your genetics will catch you. Big fright for me, the last thing I want is to precipitate a genetic trait killing me prematurely by giving it encouragement. I knew when I walked away from the hospital that morning in March 2004 that I would quit drink. I got very drunk immediately after my father's funeral and promised myself that would be my last drink. Over the next few months I had several "last" drinks. I eventually tried Allan Carr's Easyway which is a popular method for quitting tobacco but has also been proven to work for alcohol and heroin addictions and changes your attitude to why you wanted that drink. My periods of abstention gradually extended and I finally quit the booze on 6th January 2005. I've never regretted my decision.

[Riverkilt]

A couple afterthoughts, and to clarify, not posting to you personally Jim. I do worry too much that some on this board may be too far gone and not realize it - but such is the nature of additiction. Sadly, addiction never comes without strong denial. In my work, the people we help pretty much hate us up front.

Anyhow, I wanted also to speak to one of the sad effects of alcohol on relationships.

Two people who love each other can go out for a night of SOCIAL drinking. Have a wonderful time dining, dancing, enjoying being together. When they go home they may make the most romantic love ever and fall asleep in each other's arms in total bliss, grateful to the Creator for bringing them such love.

A few hours later one of them gets up to use the bathroom and trips over a shoe, or the toilet seat is up or down, and suddenly there's a huge argument. Or the argument comes up the afternoon AFTER the good times.

Withdrawal from any addictive substance causes irritability and intense moods. I'm also the VP of our local Domestic Violence agency. Many D.V. arrests don't happen when the couple is drinking, they happen the next day when they're in alcohol withdrawal and feeling intense irritability.

I worked hospital detox for five years. Newly admitted intoxicated patients are no sweat to work with. For the next couple weeks they're nasty. The entire unit is nasty because ALL the patients are in alcohol withdrawal.

But, if you're at home then that irritability come out on the ones you love. Sad, but just the way it is. The solution to many relationship problems is to stop drinking booze...even if the boozing is only at a SOCIAL level.

At least if both parties are sober they're better able to sort out what's going on with their relationship and make the best decisions as to what to do about their differences.

Alcohol doesn't just destroy our guts and brains - withdrawal from alcohol often destroys our loving relationship.

Or worse, we show up on the job irritable Monday from a weekend of SOCIAL drinking and get ticked off at the boss and cuss them out and get fired.

Or snap at the kids or drop kick the dog.

Brewers, distillers, and vintners don't give you a brochure warning you about all this stuff when they sell you their product. You have to go down to your library, or on line and learn it yourself. Or God forbid, get into the business of substance abuse counseling and watch the havoc alcohol causes on normal, often social drinking, humans.

How do you know if you have a drinking problem or not? Drink and see what happens.

Or, don't drink and see what happens. If you can't "don't drink" then you likely have a problem.

My ability to go a year without drinking didn't prove I wasn't an alcoholic. I was still an alcoholic when I drank. "Proving" I wasn't an alcoholic by inserting periods of sobriety between my binges only delayed my realization that booze had me by the cajones and it was time to sober up.

For anyone reading this who doesn't get it - I am SOOOOO GLAD!!!

If it does make sense to you, and you want some help, reach out - we're there.

Ron