Boy Scout kilts

[iang]

When the "top officials" were consulted about wearing the kilt, which country are we talking about?

I do not think that BP ever wore a kilt. In his time the use of a kilt was used only in the military or by the highland Scots. Not even lowland Scots would wear one.

BP would under no circumstances wear a military kilt as this would be donning the uniform of a regiment that he had never served in. As BP was a great respecter of regiments in the British army he would never have worn a military kilt.

BP mentioned Scots often but never as assuming anything of them. He mentioned that the Scots scouts may wear kilts but that was because he respected their heritage.

His best friend in his life was a MacLaren (The Boy) and if he was in the possesion of a kilt he would have gotten it from him. This MacLaren is the one who was with him at Brownsea, not the one who donated Gilwell.

I would be very grateful to anyone who can provide me with a picture of BP in a kilt or provide written evidence that he ever wore on.

Iang

[kenNYG]

Well I have a new group of young men and ladies that are joining the Venture group. They want to be kilted too. We have been accepted now by our fellow scouters.

[Bog Trotter]

Hey Ken NYG, That's fantastic! I'm a District Executive for our council here in Charleston, W.V. and my bonnet goes off to you. I think this is great for the scouting movement. In fact, I hope to wear my kilt to some upcoming scouting events. Keep up the good work.

[kiltedlawyer]

I agree. Anything that gets the kids excited about wearing the uniform is a good idea!

[beloitpiper]

The name O'Reilly and his blue shirt would tend to point to a catholic member of Scouting Ireland. OTOH, wearing tartan rather than solid kilts would almost tend to make me think they were protestants and in the Scouting Association, except that the SA have never worn blue shirts AFAIK and their current rules at least wouldn't allow tartan in NI unless they were all of Scots descent (which of course most of the protestants are, but not all). Not trying to be divisive really, just trying to ID them as one faction or the other, out of curiosity.

They are Catholic. This was a mural painted on a Catholic school in Belfast I visited.

[EagleJCS]

I'm an Eagle Scout, a Wood Badger (I used to be a Bear...), former Scoutmaster and a 32-year Scouting veteran (since age 8). I've received just about every volunteer award in the district/council except for the Silver Beaver. I'm currently registered with my home troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster.

I only wear my kilt (Scott red modern) with my uniform (khaki-tan) shirt when I'm piping. That provides enough connection/reason for my local council to let the uniform guidelines slide. I have been told (by the professional staff) that the rest of the time I'm to be wearing the official, authorized field uniform ("Class A") as outlined in the Insignia Guide, or the activity uniform ("Class B"), when a uniform is called for.

I live in a council where many leaders think just the uniform shirt is OK, and they'll wear jeans or slacks instead of uniform pants. The Council is trying to get all of the registered leaders to wear the uniform correctly, including the uniform pants, especially in front of the boys. (The arguments against puchasing/wearing them are: "They're too expensive", "I don't want to get them dirty", "They don't fit right", etc.)

It's been explained to me that, regardless of our personal preferences, the BSA guidelines are fairly clear regarding the uniform, and anyone not following the guidelines is not following the program, as laid out by the National Council. Since the BSA is a private, voluntary organization, and owns the image (and therefore the uniform and all of its parts*), it is conceivable that any volunteer not conforming to the uniform guidelines would be asked - at the very least - to change into the complete uniform, or out of whatever uniform parts they were wearing and into 'civilian' clothing. At worst, the individual would be compelled to leave the organization.

I have read of an incident a few years back where a registered leader (volunteer) wore the uniform shirt with camouflage pants to a high-profile (read - the press were involved) council event. On his way in, he was asked by his Council Executive (the local top-level professional BSA staffer) to change into uniform pants or remove the shirt. The gentleman refused and was subsequently escorted off the premises by the police and barred from further membership and participation in any other Scouting event in that council. An extreme example, to be sure, and we don't know if there were extenuating circumstances (past history?), but the Executive was within his rights to do so.

All that being said - and I apologize for being so long-winded - Venturing is a different animal from the Boy Scout program, and - from my understanding, not being a Venturing leader - Crews are allowed to choose their own uniform, as long as the local council approves. If your crew chooses to and is allowed to wear the kilt, more power to 'em!

Kilt-wearing in other Scout Associations around the world (Ireland, the UK, etc.) is subject to their own regulations. There is no over-arching authority regarding uniforming.

Yours in Scouting,

---
* That's why any Scout-issued badges/patches have to have the fleur-de-lis and/or 'Boy Scouts of America' or 'BSA' on them. (One of my Assistant Scoutmasters has designed patches for our local council and explained that guideline to me as it was explained to him).

[GMan]

Well I have a new group of young men and ladies that are joining the Venture group. They want to be kilted too. We have been accepted now by our fellow scouters.

Wonderful news!

[PGH]

All that being said - and I apologize for being so long-winded - Venturing is a different animal from the Boy Scout program, and - from my understanding, not being a Venturing leader - Crews are allowed to choose their own uniform, as long as the local council approves. If your crew chooses to and is allowed to wear the kilt, more power to 'em!

I agree with everything you say about the Scout uniform, EagleJCS. Just want to add though that the Venturers don't need council approval for the uniform that they choose. If a Crew or Ship doesn't want any uniform at all, that's fine too. The youth members of a Venturing unit are the only ones that decide.

Hat off to the Crew that chose to wear kilts!

I used to be a beaver...

[Spartan]

EagleJCS nailed it. Whether or not the BSA rules fit our agenda for wearing kilts, he has it right.

Although I'm not currently registered, I have a long history of BSA leadership on the unit, district and council levels. As a Woodbadger (used to be an Eagle -- and a course director, too) I have the opportunity to be an Honorary Members of the Clan MacLaren Society. Not being currently registered, I'm not entitled to wear the Scout uniform. If I have the opportunity to attend one of my grandson's Scouting events, I would consider wearing a MacLaren tartan kilt as civilian attire, but not as part of a Scout uniform as a registered Scouter.

[longhuntr74]

Great thread everyone...like most of the rest of you here, I have a long history with Scouting (the BSA to be specific). I've been a registered Scout or Scouter for 26 years now (I'm 34 by the way). I am an Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor Member of the OA, and I used to be an owl (NE-VII-13 / I think that it was somebody's idea of irony to take an 18 year old scout leader and put him in the owl patrol....funny thing was, that with all my scouting experience, I was the guy in the patrol that most turned to for advice and instruction).
I'm also a Major in the Army, so I appreciate sentiments on wearing a uniform and wearing it properly. In my opinion, it all boils down to setting a proper example in conduct and appearance to young boys (and girls...to be fair). I agree that, as Scout Leaders, we have an obligation to wear the uniform properly and enforce standards. It is my observation that, in most units, they allow the wearing of jeans, shorts, etc with the Class A shirt for all the excuses that have already been mentioned (cost, fit, etc). I appreciate units that require their scouts to wear scout pants or shorts, but don't necessarily have a problem with units that don't require it...provided they are providing a quality program, building character, etc. Somebody mentioned the neckerchief....not many units wear them anymore....I miss them! I think they really are an integral part of the scouting uniform (worldwide). So there's my two cents.
JRB

PS...thanks for the info on the MacLaren Society! I had forgotten about the connection and didn't know about honorary membership. And it is a very attractive tartan too!!