Royal Regiment of Scotland

[slohairt]

Alright, NJ must speak for himself,but you might have to accept what I am trying to give you is an honest assesment and I believe it is more or less right as far as Scotland is concerned. I know this is a point of view that is not helpful to your businesses and I am sorry about that, nevertheless I am only giving an honest view of how kilts are percieved over here. In your country the box pleat is known , it is not known well here,the same goes for the amount of cloth that is needed to make a kilt, by the majority of Scots who are not members of Xmarks.

Well, I can't speak for the United States, but here in Canada the situation likely mirrors that of Scotland. Remember that we are a Commonwealth Realm and do have kilted regiments and pipe bands for everything and anything. Most peoples' experience with kilts would probably have something to do with either or both of those sources. If the average Canadian even has an opinion concerning the yardage of a kilt, they will think it must contain the "whole nine yards". (Or eight yards in this case! ) So, no, the box-pleated kilt is just as much of an oddity here as over there.

It isn't detrimental to my business, as I offer five different styles of pleating. On the contrary, it is a detriment to the customer's Highland wear budget, as they could save money by ordering what is obviously a more affordable style of traditional kilt.

[Panache]

Offering an opinion here

xmarksthescot.com is probably the largest and most informative kilt forum on the Internet.

The Ladies and Gentlemen here are probably the most informed kilt wearers and buyers in the world.

To the native Scots this is a garment that they wear with pride but most likely don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about it.

The "8 yard, knife pleated (to sett) kilt" is by far and away the most common type of hand sewn kilt to be bought or rented in Scotland and the rest of the world.

Most people that own a hand sewn kilt own 1 kilt

One kilt

Uno

Un

That's it!

We are the exception here rather than the rule

Just to remind us all of this

I don't think that it is wrong for Jock Scot to offer some perception on how most Scots perceive the kilt.

On the other hand I suspect strongly because we here on XMTS have such and interest and passion about this garment that even though the majority of us are not native Scots, our grasp of the full history and guidelines for wearing the kilt is far greater than a great many born in Scotland.

Would your average Scot see a 4 yard box pleated kilt as a bit weird?

Maybe

Does it mean that it is wrong?

No

It is an older style that is coming back, at least here in the US, with a lot of help from our own Matt Newsome and our forum.

We know this, the average Scot might not.

Is this good or bad?

No it is just a difference.

The kilt came from Scotland but it has long since moved beyond her boundaries both geographically and culturally.

I for one am interested in hearing about how the average Scot regards his kilt and kit.

However I strongly suspect that I know a lot more about kilts than the average Scot.

I'm a very proud Californian yet it would be a gross misstatement for me to say I know more about the Golden State than anyone not born here.

Isn't it great that we have this place on the Internet to politely share these differences and celebrate diversity?

I think so.

Just my two cents

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[M. A. C. Newsome]

People have their own perceptions and preferences, and I have no problem with that. My one and only issue here is for people to avoid such assertions as "anything with less than eight yards is not a real kilt."

I mean, even the nominal "eight yard" kilt often has less than eight yards of cloth. Let alone the historical (and modern revival of) the four yard box pleated kilt.

I'm just trying to correct a misperception about kilt yardage that is fairly common, be it in Scotland, Canada, the United States, or elsewhere.

[Jock Scot]

People have their own perceptions and preferences, and I have no problem with that. My one and only issue here is for people to avoid such assertions as "anything with less than eight yards is not a real kilt."

I mean, even the nominal "eight yard" kilt often has less than eight yards of cloth. Let alone the historical (and modern revival of) the four yard box pleated kilt.

I'm just trying to correct a misperception about kilt yardage that is fairly common, be it in Scotland, Canada, the United States, or elsewhere.

The thing is Matt and I respecfully point this out again.There are 5 million or so Scots and umpteen million other people in the world that have a perception of what a real kilt is. They have never heard of boxpleats, you, me, or Xmarks and they are never likely to.Their loss maybe, but that is the way it is.

[gasbag]

There is eight yards of wool cloth in a kilt as well as knife pleats? Well I'll be
Just a thought from a "new to kilts" type like myself, when i ordered my kilt, i had no idea there was different weights, yardages or styles of pleating.
I came here and i continue to learn. Thank you all for contributing and expanding my knowledge base.
At the end of the day, i just love the kilt for what it is to me, a link to my family history.
My two cents

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The thing is Matt and I respecfully point this out again.There are 5 million or so Scots and umpteen million other people in the world that have a perception of what a real kilt is. They have never heard of boxpleats, you, me, or Xmarks and they are never likely to.Their loss maybe, but that is the way it is.

Jock,

I think you are misreading me. I'm not disagreeing with you. I understand and agree that the vast majority of people think of the kilt as a very regulated garment that must be a certain way -- and one of those "requirements" is that it be made from eight yards of cloth.

Regardless of common opinion, however, the amount of material in a kilt is not now and has never been historically a requirement for being an authentic kilt. Is a misconception -- a popularly held one, I'll admit, but a misconception nonetheless.

It is my job (literally) to educate people about the history and traditions of the kilt, and one aspect of that is to dispell the myth that a "real" kilt must have exactly eight yards of cloth.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,

I think you are misreading me. I'm not disagreeing with you. I understand and agree that the vast majority of people think of the kilt as a very regulated garment that must be a certain way -- and one of those "requirements" is that it be made from eight yards of cloth.

Regardless of common opinion, however, the amount of material in a kilt is not now and has never been historically a requirement for being an authentic kilt. Is a misconception -- a popularly held one, I'll admit, but a misconception nonetheless.

It is my job (literally) to educate people about the history and traditions of the kilt, and one aspect of that is to dispell the myth that a "real" kilt must have exactly eight yards of cloth.

Matt ,I understand full well that you are not disagreeing with me.I feel that you are missing my point though. What I am trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to point out, is that you should not be surprised, or hurt, that the misconception continues, as most of the people who are even mildly interested in the kilt have a perception of what a real kilt is. You and others know that that perception is not necessarily correct,sadly that message is not getting through, in spite of your best endeavours. And I cannot see it ever will.

What I am saying(nicely I hope) is that you should not be surprised when a person of the majority, ill informed if you like, group has no idea what you are talking about! Of course if you,me, others who know better, xmarks, etc, could reach out and educate them, then all to the good. Sadly I don't think that will ever happen, so the 8 yard, tartan, wool, knife pleated, real kilt perception will live on. I am afraid you will still have to grind your teeth with frustration when people talk of "real" kilts for a very long time yet!

[Phil]

When I went to my tailor to have a "real" kilt made, the only choice I was offered was in the tartan to be used. Apart from that there was no question that it would be knife pleated to the sett and that was what was delivered. I fully understand that others regard a box-pleated kilt as perfectly acceptable and even a low-cost alternative. As Jock has tried to put across, somewhat unsuccessfully it seems, the only style of kilt considered as authentic by any Scotsman is a tartan, knife-pleated kilt, predominately pleated to the sett with a few pleated to the line, although these would be regarded as a military style rather than a civilian one (i.e. the wearer got a cheapie from the military surplus store!). I imagine the actual yardage would vary depending upon the size of the sett and the wearer's waist size but a good indication of a quality kilt would be the depth of the pleats - 4 inches almost or the length of your fingers. Anything less is nothing more than a tartan skirt.

[macwilkin]

Matt ,I understand full well that you are not disagreeing with me.I feel that you are missing my point though. What I am trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to point out, is that you should not be surprised, or hurt, that the misconception continues, as most of the people who are even mildly interested in the kilt have a perception of what a real kilt is. You and others know that that perception is not necessarily correct,sadly that message is not getting through, in spite of your best endeavours. And I cannot see it ever will.

What I am saying(nicely I hope) is that you should not be surprised when a person of the majority, ill informed if you like, group has no idea what you are talking about! Of course if you,me, others who know better, xmarks, etc, could reach out and educate them, then all to the good. Sadly I don't think that will ever happen, so the 8 yard, tartan, wool, knife pleated, real kilt perception will live on. I am afraid you will still have to grind your teeth with frustration when people talk of "real" kilts for a very long time yet!

Welcome to the world of a history teacher, Jock.

Of course, many of us in the field have a belief that if we can reach just one student, then we've done our jobs...I deal with myths about history on a daily basis. I may not change some of my student's minds -- all I can do is present with them the facts, and provide the most accurate and objective account of the subject at hand -- and I've done my job. What they do with them is their business, I suppose. You can lead a person to knowledge -- but you can't make them think! :mrgreen:

T.

[Jock Scot]

Welcome to the world of a history teacher, Jock.

Of course, many of us in the field have a belief that if we can reach just one student, then we've done our jobs...I deal with myths about history on a daily basis. I may not change some of my student's minds -- all I can do is present with them the facts, and provide the most accurate and objective account of the subject at hand -- and I've done my job. What they do with them is their business, I suppose. You can lead a person to knowledge -- but you can't make them think! :mrgreen:

T.

I really don't think I have the skill, or the patience to be a teacher!