Some more do's and don'ts on the board

[Chas]

one should alway remember to comment "Nice Kilt" even if it looks like a potato sack

you should always comment on a cheap and nasty kilt "Nice Kilt, you can see the quality and craftsmanship that went into building that one"

As Dick Emery would say "Ooh, you are awful ... but I like you!"

Regards

Chas

[Panache]

one should alway remember to comment "Nice Kilt" even if it looks like a potato sack

you should always comment on a cheap and nasty kilt "Nice Kilt, you can see the quality and craftsmanship that went into building that one"

always remember it's more polite to blow smoke up people arses than to speak the truth.

?

Over the years I have been on XMTS I have looked at various kilts, outfits, DIY projects, and such. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't found it all that hard to praise what I liked and offer constructive criticism and helpful suggestions for what I didn't.

If I didn't have anything constructive say, then I refrained from comment.

So if I offer the comment "nice kilt" to someone then I mean that their kilt looks nice.

I believe very strongly in honesty, politeness, and in giving helpful feedback to people.

The Truth doesn't have to be rude.

And some truths don't need to be pointed out, somethings are best left for the individual to learn for themselves

Rudeness comes from the inability to consider other people's feelings.

But perhaps an example is in order.

I will offer one and myself as the subject

Post to follow...

Respectfully


Jamie :ootd:

[Panache]

So lets say a new member posts a picture of an outfit with his first real tartan kilt ...





...and says "how did I do?"


Which of the following sets of comments do you think are going to be informative, helpful, productive, and friendly to him.


These?

"Gawd you look terrible"

"Nice white hose! They go with with the fly plaid pinned to your turtleneck! "

"Looks awful!"

"Dreadful"

"Did you buy that in a Halloween Costume shop? Where's the red Scotsman's wig?"

"You look like a clown"

"From the beret to the cheap white hose you got everything wrong except the scotch in your glass. You'd better drink up as people are going to be laughing at you if you go outside looking like that! "

"Nice Kilt (snicker, snicker, snicker)"

"That kilt you are wearing looks cheap and tacky"

"Why did you even bother? "

"You actually bought all that junk? Well a fool and his money..."

"Nice Western buckle! Maybe you should get a pair of jeans, a denim shirt, boots, and cowboy hat to go with it. It sure would look better than what you are wearing!"


Or These?

"Kudos on you for donning the kilt! Personally I think the outfit would look a lot better without the fly plaid. Actually they are normally worn with a formal outfit and even then only on very special occasions (like when you are the groom at a wedding). "

"The kilt suits you. I think that you should save the fly plaid for formal events (where you are wearing a coatee), also look into finding a very thin black leather belt to switch with that sporran chain. Sporran chains wear out your front apron and are really for formal wear as well. A leather sporran strap will fit better with what you are wearing."

"Another thing that will really make this outfit look good would be to look into getting some green or blue hose. I personally don't like white hose anyway, but if you are going to wear them it would better with a formal outfit"

"Try this! Lose the fly plaid and belt. Put on a nice thick pull over sweater (maybe one that has some white with it to balance out those white hose)."

"You have a lot of pieces of formal wear you are sporting (fly plaid, semi-dress sporran, sporran chain, white hose). If you want to wear a formal highland outfit then you really need to get a Prince Charlie coatee or an Argyll jacket with a fancy waist plate or a three button waist coat. For casual wear think about a simpler day wear sporran (check out Stillwater kilts they have one under $20). I also like the idea of a sweater over the turtleneck. Gradually build up your outfit, you'll get there! "

"Lose the fly plaid, pull on a sweater, get some some different hose (tan/stone are great and go with anything) and a different sporran and if you can a day sporran and you will look 100% better. To paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi "You have taken the first step into a larger kilted world"



Which set of these comments encourages a newbie? Which helps him figure out how to do it better?

Which set of comments makes the newbie want to send his kilt and kit back to the store and forget the whole thing?

Well I was that newbie

My kilt was a cheap one of about 10 oz weight material. It wasn't a very good kilt but I didn't have any basis for comparison. Being told it was crap probably would have made me put it away and not waste any more money on kilts and kit.

But I was encouraged

My outfit wasn't very good at all. However I was able to use that inexpensive Black Watch wool kilt for about a year and then I upgraded to better ones I saw others wearing.

I learned and the fine folks here on XMTS helped me

So now I dress like this



I'm really glad there were some good hearted and polite people here on XMTS who took the time to share in a way that showed me consideration

Respectfully

Jamie :ootd:

[Zardoz]

one should alway remember to comment "Nice Kilt" even if it looks like a potato sack

you should always comment on a cheap and nasty kilt "Nice Kilt, you can see the quality and craftsmanship that went into building that one"

always remember it's more polite to blow smoke up people arses than to speak the truth.

As Panache has so elegantly demonstrated, you can be polite and still tell the truth.

[KFCarter]

"Good manners are made up of petty sacrifices."
-- Emerson

[Jock Scot]

The thing is,Jamie that you, I and others may say nothing whatsoever at some one's "sack of spuds" or we may try to make gentle and helpful comments to steer a kilt wearer in the right direction,as we see it. There are others that choose the safest course and say nothing. But and there is a big but here; there are others who would not know a sack of spuds from a marrow and still make the "nice kilt",or, "looking good" comments, which says to me that they know not what a kilt should look like ,or how it should be worn. Or they are trying too hard to be kind, whilst doing the kilt wearer no favours at all! Obviously "Redshank" feels this unhelpful flattery abounds enough to comment forcibly. I agree with him as it happens. How this can be cured, I know not, other than getting a name for honest speaking. Speaking for myself, I would regard a compliment from Chris(Redshank) as a high accolade, from some others, I am afraid, I cannot say the same.

[KFCarter]

Speaking for myself, I would regard a compliment from Chris(Redshank) as a high accolade, from some others, I am afraid, I cannot say the same.

But you're "born to it", Jock and so, I expect, is Redshank. Comparing each other's kilt knowledge is comparing apples to apples... you're in a similar league.

It's when a newbie is held up to that high standard, rather than led up to that standard, that problems can set in. The fact is, you're quite good at expressing an unvarnished opinion in a palatable way...but not everyone threads that needle.

[Redshank]

Nice kilt panache

[Garry Oak]

I think can be a good idea to have a reminder of where those sleeping dogs lie, lest someone inadvertently step on a tail in the dark.

Even if it wouldn't draw the "howling" to which people have alluded, I'd rather not offend people through my ignorance. As a new member of the forum, I appreciate learning the mores and customs of the group through discussions such as this one.

For example:

Without your contributions, the board will stagnate. As in life, even a one-liner can keep a conversation going.

Thank you. There are people here who possess and share great expertise. My supposition was that, unless I had new and interesting information (from personal knowledge) to add to a discussion, then it would be best for me to lurk and read without posting. The generous words of some of the experienced members here have convinced me that taking part in these threads is encouraged.

I do use the search function before asking questions and, naturally, I'll behave as a courteous adult.

[Panache]

Jock,

There is nothing wrong with honesty

Nothing at all

I believe that honesty and politeness should go hand in hand

Everyone on XMTS brings something to the forum, be it praise, knowledge, experience, goodwill, insight, or humor.

Based on what we write on XMTS we as members gain or lose prestige and our words gain or lose importance.

And that individual's prestige will be seen differently by most members!

Just like any other community.

We have a lot of members and a very wide range of experiences and attitudes.

What looks good to your eye as a crust...err seasoned highland Scot is going to be different from what young Raphael in Vancouver BC, or me at 41 in San Jose California like.


The three of us might all write about another member's outfit. We may all agree, we may all disagree about what works or doesn't work. Based on our words, history, and how we dress our opinions will all be evaluated differently by that individual and the whole forum.

If you don't like posts with nothing but praise then by all means lead by example and write constructive, helpful, and polite responses.

It isn't rocket science!

I like to apply the wonderful "4 Way Test" of the Rotary Club to what I say and write

1. Is it the TRUTH?
2. Is it FAIR to All Concerned?
3. Will it Build GOODWILL and Better Friendships?
4. Will it Be BENEFICIAL to All Concerned?

The Truth is an important part of any community, but communities also need Politeness, Respect, and Goodwill to work

I read a lot of posts on XMTS and I see all of this in what is written here

A far cry from "Nice Kilt"

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

The thing is,Jamie that you, I and others may say nothing whatsoever at some one's "sack of spuds" or we may try to make gentle and helpful comments to steer a kilt wearer in the right direction,as we see it. There are others that choose the safest course and say nothing. But and there is a big but here; there are others who would not know a sack of spuds from a marrow and still make the "nice kilt",or, "looking good" comments, which says to me that they know not what a kilt should look like ,or how it should be worn. Or they are trying too hard to be kind, whilst doing the kilt wearer no favours at all! Obviously "Redshank" feels this unhelpful flattery abounds enough to comment forcibly. I agree with him as it happens. How this can be cured, I know not, other than getting a name for honest speaking. Speaking for myself, I would regard a compliment from Chris(Redshank) as a high accolade, from some others, I am afraid, I cannot say the same.