So what did they call this jacket?

[OC Richard]

In gathering a fairly large collection of old photos of pipers and others in Highland dress, two things popped out to my eye:

1) the dress of pipers remained remarkably stable from the 1860's up through the 1920's.

2) most were wearing the same style of jacket.

3) this jacket style was not in the Pantheon of jackets received from the 1970's when I started playing (Montrose, Regulation, etc etc).

So, I've been wondering what this style of jacket was called.

Here's the first image I can find of it, a piper in 1865, followed by a number of other images of it:











And here's the Highland dress page from a vintage Henderson catalogue.



Note that it mentions "Celtic jacket with vest" and "doublet with vest".

Since this catalogue is from a pipermaker, and must have been from the period when the jacket style under discussion was nearly universal for pipers, one of these two, "celtic" or "doublet", must have been that style... but which one?

(Military-style pipe band doublets are listed on another page.)

By the way the Paisleys catalogue from 1940 continues to show this style (but only for boys, and girl Highland dancers??)



(By the way, my photos have been called into question as representing Highland dress as a whole as my photos are mostly of pipers. I collected photos of pipers because I play the pipes. I can assure you that for every vintage photo of a piper I passed up 20 or 30 photos of men dressed exactly the same way, the only difference being the "shells" appearing at the shoulders of some of the pipers' jackets.)

[MacLowlife]

Don't you think it could be called a variant regulation doublet? It has flaps, it has lapels, it has gauntlet cuffs, it doesn't seem to button ( though some of your pictures show one that does.) I seem to recall this topic coming up recently ( with some of the same photos) and there was no real agreement, but the suggestion was that this is a regulation- with shells and contrasting piping in some cases...

Of course, the lapels on the current version of the regulation do not look quite the same and the non-buttoning aspect is more obvious.

You could just as easily say that it is a variant of the Balmoral, only with gauntlet cuffs and a waistcoat. And worn unbuttoned...

The little boy's jacket comes dangerously close to being a Sheriffmuir with lapels.

I tried to set out the various choices for doublets in a thread one time and to put names to the usual combinations ( single/ double breasted; flaps/ no flaps; collar/lapel; cuffs, etc.) but the difficulty becomes just what you started with- a lack of a universal naming system. Many of the names started out as proprietary brands and some of them directly contradict each other.

I believe the name Balmoral is a recent innovation, specifically referring to a jacket worn by HRH the Duke of Rothesay (Prince Charles) and commercially exploited only since, but probably made for years before.

Some people are willing to ignore slight changes caused by fashion- others think too many changes make a new model with a new name.

I expect that is my thousand words.

[Bigkahuna]

Looks like a cross between Patrol Dress and Mess Dress Tunics and the full dress Bandsmans Tunic.

[OC Richard]

Thanks for the info and photos!

Yes none of the modern Pantheon of Highland jackets quite matches.

All of the modern Evening doublets I've seen that have the Inverness tashes and Argyll/gauntlet cuffs either have Prince Charlie style lapels or a high standing military style collar.

The jacket I'm wondering about has a collar like an ordinary suit coat of that period (late 19th and early 20th century). It is worn with a waistcoat. Like ordinary suit coats of that time, it's often worn with only the top button buttoned, but at other times with several or all buttons buttoned.

Here's an example with a collar/lapels more like the "Regulation doublet".



Anyhow the style under discussion couldn't have been called Montrose or Regulation or whatever because these terms weren't used then, as far as I can see.

[OC Richard]

A full page ad from R.W. Forsyth's Highland Dress catalog from the early 1900's advertising this exact same outfit can be found on page 50 of the book "Scottish Clans and Tartans" by Neil Grant. The caption of the illustration reads "Full Dress" Highland Costume (black cloth, silk velvet, velveteen, or Celtic green doublet and vest)... The doublet itself is worn open and has lapels like and ordinary Regulation doublet or Prince Charlie coatee, rather than the stand-up collar found on the Sherriffmuir or Montrose type doublets. I myself have never seen a name applied to this style of jacket and as far as I know it has always just been referred to as a "Highland Doublet"

I would love to see that Forsyth illustration! "Celtic green doublet and vest"... I wonder if this is the "Celtic" jacket mentioned in the Henderson catalogue...

Note that the jacket I'm talking about does not have lapels like a Regulation doublet or Prince Charlie but rather lapels like an ordinary suit coat from the second half of the 19th century.

[Jock Scot]

I think we need to remember that "off the peg" jackets with a standardized description name for a particular style is a modern idea. In those days, bespoke jackets were the norm,or an adaptation of a second hand jacket that came into the hands of the piper's family. In those days,don't forget, every home would have a more than average seamstress on hand as a matter of necessity,so an individual styled jacket was almost inevitable.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

I see from the catalogue that these "Celtic" jackets came in a few colors. I wonder if there were a fair mix of colors being worn by the pipers of the time or if one color predominated. Hard for me to tell from the B&W photos.

As versatile as the black Argyll jacket is, it must acccount for over 90% of the jackets pipers wear today and is frankly a little dull in its ubiquity. On that note, the trend for waiscoats sans jackets for pipers is a little annoying to me, but if you live in a hot climate I guess a break is in order.

[MacLowlife]

As usual, Jock makes several good points. I like your use of Pantheon, OC, and it brings to mind the problem we keep bumping into. Just as the Romans and the Greeks had similar deities with different names, Kinloch Anderson and their competitors can barely agree that the garment below the waist is a kilt- after that, proprietary nomenclature takes over.

Another thread discusses whether or not the Argyll is sufficiently formal for black tie wear, with interesting points raised about lapel facings and somewhere we see and hear about different lapel shapes, too. It is easy to assume that the notched lapel is the only current lapel option for single breasted suits, or that double breasted suits will always have peaked ones. In my closet today are several single breasted peak lapel suits. They are not exactly commonplace, but they have had their followers throughout the 20th century. The Nehru jacket has a small, but persistent niche even in western menswear ( Euro-American western, not Cowboy western) and somewhere, I am sure a very proper stylish gent is wearing a suit with two rows of buttons and notched lapels- like a US navy Pea Coat. I even have a hunting jacket, off the rack since the Viet Nam war or thereabouts, with a shawl collar.

My point is that all of these variations turn up repeatedly over the last couple of hundred years. And they never quite go away.

I do not dispute anything said above about the jacket in question, but I don't know that lapel shape or even closure is going to be enough to say "This is a duck" or "this is a beaver". Shall we call it the Platypus Doublet?

[slohairt]

I think we need to remember that "off the peg" jackets with a standardized description name for a particular style is a modern idea. In those days, bespoke jackets were the norm,or an adaptation of a second hand jacket that came into the hands of the piper's family. In those days,don't forget, every home would have a more than average seamstress on hand as a matter of necessity,so an individual styled jacket was almost inevitable.

Very true, Jock. Even in fairly recent times there was still a lot of variation within one jacket 'style'. I have a Regulation Doublet that is 41 years old and, while the basic construction is similar, it is very different from the Regulation Doublets I sell in my business. It was a bespoke item made for an individual by a (now-defunct) tailoring firm in Toronto. The faded tag on the inside pocket still has all of his pertinent information. It's an interesting doublet, as I don't know which of the features were typical of the tailor's products or if they were just personal preferences on the part of the original owner.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

Very true, Jock. Even in fairly recent times there was still a lot of variation within one jacket 'style'. I have a Regulation Doublet that is 41 years old and, while the basic construction is similar, it is very different from the Regulation Doublets I sell in my business. It was a bespoke item made for an individual by a (now-defunct) tailoring firm in Toronto. The faded tag on the inside pocket still has all of his pertinent information. It's an interesting doublet, as I don't know which of the features were typical of the tailor's products or if they were just personal preferences on the part of the original owner.

If you had a chance to post a pic of it, I for one would be interested in seeing it. The pictures of the RegDoubs I see offered on the internet look more like it has evolved into a PC with Inverness flaps/taches tacked on the front, though they do have the Argyll cuff. I might feel differently if I saw one close-up, but that is what the pics convey to me. Older varieties I have seen looked much more distinctive.