clan associations

[O'Callaghan]

Not a member of any clan, as I'm Irish.

The Irish surely had clans but, for some reason, they did not take a strong hold like the Scottish clans. The English saw to that. If one does some history checking, look for the Penal Laws against the Irish, and you'll see why many traditional things got lost. The clan system did not bounce back like the Scottish ones. The clans and communal way of life were destroyed by these Penal Laws.

In the case of the Callaghan clan, the chief himself, Connoghor O'Callaghan at that time, filed a suit in 1605 in an attempt to convert the clan lands to his own ownership. I use convert in the sense of fraudulent conversion, except that he was trying to do it legally through the courts. He failed, but partially succeeded, as the court granted the chief's lands to him, which would otherwise have passed differently from his personal lands, but didn't grant him the ordinary clan lands, which remained in the hands of his clansmen. All he achieved was to convert the descent of the chieftainship from tanistry to primogeniture. The court actually recognised the old system of land ownership, calling it 'custom time out of mind', but arguably didn't fully understand it.

Other clans weren't so lucky, as many chiefs in both Ireland and Scotland successfully converted the clan lands to their own ownership, turning their clansmen into tenants. This was made possible due to English law being adopted in Ireland and, ironically, by Scottish law being adopted in the Highlands. Scotland to this day has a legal system which is based on Roman civil law, totally different from England, but the highlanders formerly followed the legal system of Ireland, from which they originally came, and neither the English nor the Scottish system recognised communal ownership of land by a clan.

So you see, the chiefs were often to blame for the destruction of the clan system, by their own greed, taking advantage of the changes in legal systems. Not to ignore the Irish penal laws, which made things worse.

As for taking a strong hold, really the clan system died out in both places, but was revived in Scotland by people like Sir Walter Scott, for example.

[denmcdough]

Very good bit of history there! I enjoyed it.

Yes, greed was and is alive. Too bad the penal laws decimated the Irish. If one looks at the written text of those laws, you would be appalled by what you read. By today's standards, that would not be acceptable in a civilized country.

In Irish history ~ being taught in their schools today ~ they use the word genocide to describe their history under English rule, and they definitely wanted to break up the clan system.

Oh, and there were the Irish who went along with the English...had to save their own behind. Wonder what I'd do if in the same situation??

Food for thought! [/I]