Australian Army to ditch the Kilt...!

[BEEDEE]

Here's the Drum Major of the Tanaka Regiment (if I recall correctly) who performed at the Edinburgh Tattoo.

More likely the Taranaki Regt which was amalgamated with Wellington and West Coast and is now one of the Territorial Battalions in 2 Land Force Group. http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/stru...land-force.htm

Brian

[English Bloke]

... It's always been my understanding that only the pipes and drums of the Royal Australian Regiment (RAR) wore the Australian tartan; in the photo gallery of the NSW Scottish Association's web site, you will find a number of pictures from present day of Australian squaddies wearing the Government Sett, just as the 5/6 Btn of the RVR wear Gordon, etc...

RE: 5/7 RAR pipes and drums, you're right Tod. They used to wear the Gordon and switched to Australian National in 1992. Interesting article here.

[staticsan]

I have to say that I'm not surprised. From my experience, Aussies have simply not picked up kilt-wearing like the USians have. There might well be an element of the population size to that, plus a quite different attitude to being "one of the group". In the US, you are much more likely to get a stranger coming up to you and saying something because you are kilted. Aussies will not, as a rule, do that; there has to be another reason to talk to you first.

Wade

[OC Richard]

From my experience, Aussies have simply not picked up kilt-wearing like the USians have.

What I wonder is, why in these times when the US Army is having trouble securing enough volunteers, they don't create a Highland unit? Done properly, with a Highland verson of the US Army uniform, a pipe band, etc.
I think it would be extremely popular, and have no shortage of volunteers.

USians...hmmm... we DO really need a name for us! "Americans" is too broad, as Brazilians and Cubans and Canadians are all Americans alike. "North Americans" is both too long and too broad, as Mexicans and Canadians are North Americans too.

USans?? ("yoo-ESS-anz")

USians? ("yoo-ESS-ee-anz")

USAns? ("yoo-ess-EY-anz")

USAs? ("yoo-ess-EYZ") (Not good- sounds like the possessive)

[Kilt_Like_Objects]

I have to say that I'm not surprised. From my experience, Aussies have simply not picked up kilt-wearing like the USians have. There might well be an element of the population size to that, plus a quite different attitude to being "one of the group". In the US, you are much more likely to get a stranger coming up to you and saying something because you are kilted. Aussies will not, as a rule, do that; there has to be another reason to talk to you first.

Wade

Couldn't agree more. People here stare a lot but mostly talk amongst themselves about "the bloke in the skirt".

If I'm with the dog - I usually am - they'll pat him and make their introductions that way. Only then does the kilt get mentioned.

Edit - Also, I find that soldiers in the Australian army are some of the least tolerant of kilts, ironically. Officers tend to be more polite. I just spent the weekend in Sydney with the family. Right next to the Moorebank DNSDC. Tolerance was next to zero. Outright hostility abounded.

[BEEDEE]

This is not the first time that Australia has ditched the kilt, according to Frank Adam in The Clans, Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands 1934

From Appendix XXXVII -

Abolition of the Highland Dress in the Australian Army

The following letters, which appeared in the "Argus" newspaper (Melbourne) during June 1915, will give my readers an idea of the Scoto-Australian sentiment with regard to the above matter, viz:-
Where are the Kilts?
"Sir, -I read in the "Argus" of yesterday these words:-"I can assure you," Senator Pearce said, "that anything the Ministry can do to stimulate recruiting... it will do; and neither money nor effort will be spared." Why did his Ministry hurl insult upon insult on Australina Scots, and ban the kilted regiments? We will forgive the insults and raise a thousand men in a few days, if kilts are reintroduced for home and active service. Will Senator Pearce keep tot eh promise above quoted?
Yours, &c,
Clan Menzies

"Sir,- I am sure there are thousand of Scots in Australia that will agree with "Clan Menzies'" letter today. I am sure that if recruits for a Scottish regiment were called for, thousands would apply in a few days. All my people have been connected with Scottish regiments. The Canadians have their Highlanders, and why can't we? Give us the right to fight in our old uniforms and we will still be there. This privilege would stimulate recruiting more than all the posters and platform talk in the world. I would trust some of our wealthy, influential Scottish Australians to take the matter up.
-Yours &c,
Cameronian

Adam goes on with personal correspondence:

Melbourne, 18th July, 1923
Dear Sir,- With reference to your letter of the 4th June requesting information resepecting Scottish regiments in the Australian military forces, I am directed to inform you that there is now no unit of the Australian military forces with any national title or distinctive clothing, and there are no pipers connected with the military forces.
-Yours faithfully,
(sgd) T. Trumble
Secretary,
the Department of Defense.

Anyone know when they brought any element of Scottish dress back into the army?

Brian

[QMcK]

Normally, I'm staunchly for tradition, but I think ditching the kilt is a good thing. Most of the soldiers probably hate wearing the kilt. I presume it's just a dress outfit, but it is pretty impractical compared to trousers. It must cost a heck of a lot to make all those kilts.

The main reason is that having the kilt as a regimental uniform probably breeds hatred of it.

[macwilkin]

Normally, I'm staunchly for tradition, but I think ditching the kilt is a good thing. Most of the soldiers probably hate wearing the kilt. I presume it's just a dress outfit, but it is pretty impractical compared to trousers. It must cost a heck of a lot to make all those kilts.

The main reason is that having the kilt as a regimental uniform probably breeds hatred of it.

Highland regiments generally have high esprit de corps; if you don't like kilts, then why on earth would you join a regiment/battalion that wore Highland dress?

I can think of some instances during the Cardwell Reforms of the British Army in the 1880s when non-kilted battalions were forced to wear the kilt as part of regimental amalgamation, but remember that the majority of the Australian Battalions that did/do wear Highland dress have long histories of doing so, such as the aforementioned Victorian Scottish Regiment, the Cameron Highlanders of WA, etc. If anything, such a long lineage and tradition builds pride in the kilt -- all you have to do is look at the Canadian & South African Highland regiments.

T.

[macwilkin]

This is not the first time that Australia has ditched the kilt, according to Frank Adam in The Clans, Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands 1934

From Appendix XXXVII -

Adam goes on with personal correspondence:

Anyone know when they brought any element of Scottish dress back into the army?

Brian

According to the Digger History web site, it looks like the 1930s (at least with the Vic Scottish):

1925 saw the reintroduction of territorial titles and the 5th was granted the old title of Victorian Scottish Regiment.

In November 1929, compulsory training was suspended and Militia training introduced. The territorial title came into proper use and the lion rampant badge, together the motto of the old Victorian Scottish Regiment, Nemo Me Impune Lacessit (No one hurts us with impunity) was adopted.

Immediately, permission to wear Highland uniform was sought, but owning to the need for economy, the kilt was not permitted. However, due to the efforts of the Scottish societies and friends of the Regiment, permission was eventually obtained and subscriptions, Regimental activities and individual payments by the men enabled the
Regiment, on 6 May 1935 to again parade in Scottish dress for the first time since 1912.

-- http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...ottish-5th.htm

T.

[Lachlan09]

I agree, it is...

Not my cup of porridge, but that's because I've been indoctrinated with the mainly green/blue regimental tartans we all know and love. Even the 72nd's tartan (Prince Charles Edward Stuart) was a bit garish for me.