Beautiful Doublet

[OC Richard]

I guess I'll be the dissenting voice here, as I don't care for that doublet.

It's got too many colours going on to suit me.

And it ignores the traditional colouring of doublets: in the 19th century military some doublets have everything all one colour (as in the solid Archer Green pipers' doublets) but if two colours are used the contrasting colour appears on the cuffs and standing collar, never on the tashes/flaps.

And to have parts of the tashes/flaps one colour, other parts another, looks even more odd to me.

It dates back to the history of military jackets, the cuffs being contrasting because they were turned up, revealing the colour of the jacket's lining material. The tashes/flaps were always reckoned as being part of the body of the doublet, and did not evolve as an underneath portion turned over to the outside. History aside, doublet makers have always seemed to respect these conventions so it jumps out when one tailor does not.

This making of various portions of a jacket different colours willy-nilly leads to stuff like this:

[svc40bt]

Just curious what the lapel facings are made of? Everything else appears to be velvet, and you have already mentioned the silk lining. I guess there is something else lining the collar.

[JSFMACLJR]

Just curious what the lapel facings are made of? Everything else appears to be velvet, and you have already mentioned the silk lining. I guess there is something else lining the collar.

The facings are made of corded silk, or grosgrain. I don't know about the lining of the collar.

[svc40bt]

The facings are made of corded silk, or grosgrain. I don't know about the lining of the collar.

Thanks. Upon closer inspection of the photo, it appears what I was looking at was the rather unusual hanger the doublet was on, very highly shaped in the collar area.

[JSFMACLJR]

I guess I'll be the dissenting voice here, as I don't care for that doublet.

It's got too many colours going on to suit me.

And it ignores the traditional colouring of doublets: in the 19th century military some doublets have everything all one colour (as in the solid Archer Green pipers' doublets) but if two colours are used the contrasting colour appears on the cuffs and standing collar, never on the tashes/flaps.

And to have parts of the tashes/flaps one colour, other parts another, looks even more odd to me.

It dates back to the history of military jackets, the cuffs being contrasting because they were turned up, revealing the colour of the jacket's lining material. The tashes/flaps were always reckoned as being part of the body of the doublet, and did not evolve as an underneath portion turned over to the outside. History aside, doublet makers have always seemed to respect these conventions so it jumps out when one tailor does not.

This making of various portions of a jacket different colours willy-nilly leads to stuff like this:

Too many colours? Three? Actually this doublet is nothing out of the ordinary. While having tashes and cuffs of a different colour from the body of the doublet may look odd to you, it certainly is a very traditional look found in many of the best bespoke jackets. I can assure you that my friend is quite the expert on "matters Scottish", as it puts it, and is known throughout the Highlands as a man of impeccible taste when it comes to his clothes.

You wrote: "History aside, doublet makers have always seemed to respect these conventions so it jumps out when one tailor does not." What do you base this statement on? Tailors do what their clients' request. My friend's tailor is reckoned as one of the best in bespoke Highland dress. This doublet was made by Meyer & Mortimer ( who took over William Jardine's , which WAS considered THE BEST by all who know about these things ). Nothing is "willy-nilly" about this doublet! The scarlet silk facings are indeed very traditional, especially when the doublet is worn with a Stewart tartan. Blue and green velvet in the same doublet is very attractive. I have seen many doublets that do this; in fact my grandfather had a similar doublet.

I don't think you appreciate the ethos of a well dressed Highland gentleman. Individual style is something to be praised, and not rejected haphazardly. While I respect your opinion and the fact that you personally do not like this doublet ( de gustibus non est disputandum ) I cannot let you get by and criticize it as untraditional or over-the-top. It most certainly is not!

[OC Richard]

While having tashes and cuffs of a different colour from the body of the doublet is a very traditional look...

You wrote: "History aside, doublet makers have always seemed to respect these conventions so it jumps out when one tailor does not." What do you base this statement on? Tailors do what their clients' request.

My "eye" in matters of Highland Dress has been formed by 1) owning a large number of books on Highland Dress and spending quite a bit of time studying the old portraits reproduced within 2) looking at many old portraits in museums and historic places in Scotland 3) collecting a large number of vintage photos of men in Highland Dress 4) studying the dress of the kilted Highland regiments and 5) examining very closely the dress in The Highlanders of Scotland.

This is in no way any sort of definitive or exhaustive list of sources, but it is a large enough "sampling" to get a good feel for what is traditional and what is not.

I cannot recall seeing a doublet made with tashes of a different colour from the body in any old portrait. My memory isn't perfect. But if such a thing occurs in an old portrait somewhere I probably would have seen it.

We sometimes have to keep in mind that Highland Dress as it has come down to us was perpetuated in the military. Military doublets respect the origins of the collar and cuffs being originally turned back and showing a contrasting lining colour. The tashes did not originate in this way, but were always an extension of the body. It's easy to see how someone not familiar with such things might, by false analogy, think of the cuffs, collar, and tashes all as added bits simply stuck onto the body of the doublet, and all equally subject to being done in contrasting colours.

Your statement "tailors do what their clients request" explains it all. A tailor may be highly respected and very expensive, but if a client requests him to make something that's at odds with tradtion, the product will be at odds with tradition. The product doesn't gain the patina of tradition just because it's been produced.

[JSFMACLJR]

My "eye" in matters of Highland Dress has been formed by 1) owning a large number of books on Highland Dress and spending quite a bit of time studying the old portraits reproduced within 2) looking at many old portraits in museums and historic places in Scotland 3) collecting a large number of vintage photos of men in Highland Dress 4) studying the dress of the kilted Highland regiments and 5) examining very closely the dress in The Highlanders of Scotland.

This is in no way any sort of definitive or exhaustive list of sources, but it is a large enough "sampling" to get a good feel for what is traditional and what is not.

I cannot recall seeing a doublet made with tashes of a different colour from the body in any old portrait. My memory isn't perfect. But if such a thing occurs in an old portrait somewhere I probably would have seen it.

We sometimes have to keep in mind that Highland Dress as it has come down to us was perpetuated in the military. Military doublets respect the origins of the collar and cuffs being originally turned back and showing a contrasting lining colour. The tashes did not originate in this way, but were always an extension of the body.
Your statement "tailors do what their clients request" explains it all. A tailor may be highly respected and very expensive, but if a client requests him to make something that's at odds with tradtion, the product will be at odds with tradition. The product doesn't gain the patina of tradition just because it's been produced.

I won't let your insulting my friend cause me too much distress! Unfortunately I cannot reveal his name, as he wishes anonymity, but you are WAY off base! An excellent tailor wouldn't make anything that is out of line. Really. You have left out one important group in your study of Highland dress, and that is the vast number of gentlemen who grew up wearing it. Have you lived and moved among the Highland gentry? Have you attended any of the great Highland balls? I can assure you, in no uncertain terms, that the doublet in question is perfectly normal, acceptable, and traditional.

When you wrote "It's easy to see how someone not familiar with such things might, by false analogy, think of the cuffs, collar, and tashes all as added bits simply stuck onto the body of the doublet, and all equally subject to being done in contrasting colours", you really show your ignorance. Contrasting colours are as old as the garments themselves.

I'll say no more on the matter, except experience matters a great deal here. The gentlemen who wore/wear evening dress regularly saw it through different eyes than you do. They lived the life, and the old traditions of Highland dress are epitomised in what they wore, and in what they continue to wear.

[Phil]

When you wrote "It's easy to see how someone not familiar with such things might, by false analogy, think of the cuffs, collar, and tashes all as added bits simply stuck onto the body of the doublet, and all equally subject to being done in contrasting colours", you really show your ignorance. Contrasting colours are as old as the garments themselves.

I would agree. I have seen no less a personage than Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay sporting a dinner jacket/tuxedo with contrasting red lapels - an affectation begun by one of his forebears I believe -