traditional vs. classic

[Jock Scot]

My guidance came from one kilt wearing father, six kilt wearing uncles, and a kilt wearing grandfather and the kilt wearing experiance goes back further than that too. Plus, over 60 years of kilt wearing for me.

[MacLowlife]

CMcG, You wonder where it comes from, this sense of how things ought to be? I wish I had Jock's early experience of living around kilted gentlemen, but I haven't. I believe we bring with us to the kilt wearing world the same sensibilities we have otherwise. For me, that is a grounding in traditional clothing coming from observation and a couple of stints in the clothing business. You can learn a lot by looking, though it seems to me you mostly reinforce what you already know and like- until you see that knowledge and taste fall short or go amiss.

Where we really begin to grow, though, is when we can look at something popular and say " I can do better than that."

I started with Thompson's book, too, and I still look at it from time to time. I wonder what he would say about the changes in the marketplace in the past five or ten years.

I would be more worried about the PC if it were really bad, instead of just ubiquitous. When made well, it is a nice garment and nothing to be ashamed of. If you look at Saxon formal wear styles from the last 50 years or so, there are worse things to be dressed up in, far far worse. In truth, I can think of occasions where a "full dress Argyll" is probably far less acceptable.

For most of us, the internet came into our lives after we were adults. It is a wonderful tool, but it is just the icing on the cake of other experience. After a while, you learn to filter it, like everything else.

I have something else up my sleeve that I am eager to show, but not just yet...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I would be more worried about the PC if it were really bad, instead of just ubiquitous. When made well, it is a nice garment and nothing to be ashamed of.

That's my point. It seems the vast majority of PCs currently being sold are poorly tailored, ill fitting, and for the most part cut from cloth too light in weight to be suited to the purpose of being made into a gentleman's coat. It would seem that their only virtue is a cheap price, which in my experience is no virtue at all.

If someone chooses to to wear a PC that's fine with me. But I think it is unfortunate if they make that choice based solely on price with little or no regard as to the quality of the product they are buying.

[CMcG]

I have something else up my sleeve that I am eager to show, but not just yet...

MacLowlife, do tell?

[Jock Scot]

This thread has got me thinking and some how I think things are made far too complicated these days. M o R gives a fine example of simplicity with his Oban story! I am not sure all the labels are necessary, in some ways it shows insecurity, or maybe a lack of confidence to be wearing something that you can't put a label on, or compartmentalise.This is a very modern way of doing things and whilst many are strongly objecting about "conforming", in fact, that is just what they are doing!

To my mind there is little difference between "traditional" and "classic" kilt attire. Don't forget in the UK, two hundred years is hardly regarded as old.There is a most definitely a "modern" and certainly a "historical" slant on kilt attire such as a great kilt , which is only seen(rarely thank goodness) being worn in this part of the world by the theatrical crowd or a tourist.

[CMcG]

Jock Scot, pithy and valid points you have. Apologies if I have overcomplicated this.

I shall endeavor to borrow your terminology and rephrase my question. If in the realm of traditional/classic Highland apparel there is a continuum ranging from historical to modern, where is the conceptual division?

Examples are welcome but I think I'm trying to elicit more of a guiding principle... as a young, North-American man, I lean towards what seems modern and away from what seems historical. Nevertheless, I have great respect for tradition and am not interested in modernity stripped of its roots. I think my parallel question of how people have formed their sense of style is intended to be supportive to this larger question.

[davidlpope]

If in the realm of traditional/classic Highland apparel there is a continuum ranging from historical to modern, where is the conceptual division?

Examples are welcome but I think I'm trying to elicit more of a guiding principle... as a young, North-American man, I lean towards what seems modern and away from what seems historical.

I'm not sure that I can define it, but I think I can recognize it when I see it (apologies to Justice Stewart).


Classic Traditional Highland Daywear:



Modern Traditional Highland Daywear:



Modern Traditional Highland Evening Wear on left/ Classic Traditional Highland Evening Wear on right




To summarize:

Classic traditional highland dress = what most chiefs wear.

daywear: plain tweed jackets/waistcoats, jacobite cantle/ animal maks sporran, lovat blue, bottle green, claret hose
evening wear: Montrose/regulation, etc. doublets, diced or Argyll hose, hair sporrans, buckle brogues



Modern traditional highland dress = what competing pipers wear/ what is readily available from retailers.

daywear: black Argyll with white metal buttons, white or black hose, black leather sporran, ghillie brogues
evening wear: Prince Charlie, white or black hose, common rectangular white metal buckle kilt belt, fuzzy rabbit fur sporran with common white metal cantle, ghillie brogues

Cordially,

David

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

With reference only to the jacket: This is almost identical to the jacket worn by Loudon MacQueen Doulglas in the photograph opposite page 36 in book THE KILT, A Manual of Scottish National Dress, published in 1914.

If the jacket was made from tweed this would be 100% correct for day wear; made from a finer wool or barathea (as in the photo) it is still correct for day way and perfect for a guest at a wedding, although, perhaps, a trifle too formal for most other outings.

Although the number of button on the front may vary from one to three, the basic Argyll jacket still remains an all-time classic.