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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    About the arms:

    Set as they are on a "cartouche" it is hard to tell just what the gold bit surrounding the shield is supposed to represent. Looking at the arms in the pommel the gold line seems too thin to be a mark of cadency-- perhaps it is merely a fimbration added to help unify the design.

    The convention in British heraldry is to use the livery colours for both the mantling and the wreath; red and white mantling is often the default used by heralds when the liveries would take away from the overall design. When that happens the livery colours should be named in the blazon and depicted on the exemplification.

    Generally speaking the helmet rests directly on the shield-- the exceptions being when a cap of maintenance or a coronet of rank is placed on the shield, then the helmet "issues" from that devise. The torse sits on top of the helmet, immediately below the crest. It's original purpose was to hide, and to some degree protect, the laces that secured the crest to the helmet.

    I agree with MacLowlife that a simple presentation of the arms would be better, especially as the arms in the pommel of the sword do not appear to be hatched to show their true colours.

    Since the arms are: per fess sable and argent a lion rampant counterchanged, (the whole fimbriated or?) I would suggest that you consider going with red and white mantling to avoid making the achievement look "washed out".
    Last edited by MacMillan of Rathdown; 31st January 10 at 05:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    25th March 08
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    About the arms:

    Set as they are on a "cartouche" it is hard to tell just what the gold bit surrounding the shield is supposed to represent. Looking at the arms in the pommel the gold line seems too thin to be a mark of cadency-- perhaps it is merely a fimbration added to help unify the design.

    The convention in British heraldry is to use the livery colours for both the mantling and the wreath; red and white mantling is often the default used by heralds when the liveries would take away from the overall design. When that happens the livery colours should be named in the blazon and depicted on the exemplification.

    Generally speaking the helmet rests directly on the shield-- the exceptions being when a cap of maintenance or a coronet of rank is placed on the shield, then the helmet "issues" from that devise. The torse sits on top of the helmet, immediately below the crest. It's original purpose was to hide, and to some degree protect, the laces that secured the crest to the helmet.

    I agree with MacLowlife that a simple presentation of the arms would be better, especially as the arms in the pommel of the sword do not appear to be hatched to show their true colours.

    Since the arms are: per fess sable and argent a lion rampant counterchanged, (the whole fimbriated or?) I would suggest that you consider going with red and white mantling to avoid making the achievement look "washed out".
    I don't think that Scottish arms now go by the "default" mantling of gules and argent; only the Irish are still limited to this restriction. That being said, mantling gules doubled argent would add a nice touch of colour to the arms in question, no?

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    If you don't mind my asking, who produced this fine looking blade?

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by svc40bt View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, who produced this fine looking blade?
    Rob Miller. Here's his website.

    http://www.castlekeep.co.uk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    17th December 07
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR View Post
    I don't think that Scottish arms now go by the "default" mantling of gules and argent; only the Irish are still limited to this restriction. That being said, mantling gules doubled argent would add a nice touch of colour to the arms in question, no?
    Maybe default wasn't the clearest choice of words. Usually the mantling/livery is derived from the first metal and colour. Sometimes, however, this may not be workable for any number of reasons-- up to and including the wishes of the client! When that happens heralds can fall back on the ever-popular "gules doubled argent". (Which in this instance would definitely improve the look of the whole achievement.)

    The practice in Ireland (where no restriction exists) has always been to (1) follow the wish of the client; (2) use the first named metal/colour; (3) when all else fails-- it's red and white!

    Livery colours need not follow the metal/colour guideline, and may be of more than two colours, as in the case of the Baron of Slane (granted 1999) whose livery colours are sable, or, and gules.

    I think most heralds prefer to follow the metal/colour path when devising arms, but the reality is that there is nothing to prevent other metals/colours from being used. At the end of the day good heraldry is as much about "art" as it is "science".

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