what does "of that ilk" mean?

[Bugbear]

I don't know, Grant, I can only read the picture address name... Something about an elk with a bugle...

I'm beginning to feel that I may be being perceived of as being... "of that ilk." It's all true. Guess there's not much I can do about it, other than,

[JSFMACLJR]

A concise explanation of "of that Ilk" may be found in MacKinnon of Dunakin's brief book, Scotland's Heraldry. All of this silliness about this style is starting to get to me!

To wit:
"In the Lowlands...the expression "of that Ilk" was used to designate the laird who held the place from which the family took its name, and who was head of the whole name. The word "ilk" simply means "same" and, in charter-Latin, Dundas of that Ilk was called "Dundas de eodem." Thus Dundas of that Ilk was head of the whole name, and Dundas of Duddingston was head of a cadet family whose seat was Duddingston.
Some of the Highland chiefs, to make their status clear at Court and when travelling outside of the Highlands, adopted the style "of that Ilk," early examples being MacLeod whose arms are given in Workman's MS, circa 1565-66, as MAK CLOYD OF Yt ILK (i.e. Dunvegan), and MacLachlan was styled "of that Ilk" in 1573. The use of his territorial designation might have made a chief appear, to a Lowlander, as a mere cadet. ...
About the beginning of the 19th century, many of the chiefs, especially those from the Highlands, because of the difficulty of explaining "of that Ilk" when they visited England, adopted the well-known style of duplication of the patronymic; thus MacGregor of MacGregor, MacKinnon of MacKinnon, MacLeod of MacLeod, and so on. In some cases both the double patronymic and the territorial title is used, as in MacDougall of MacDougall and Dunollie, MacMillan of MacMillan and Knapp, and so on, and this is particularly the case where the clan lands remain in the possession of, or have been recovered by the chief."

[JSFMACLJR]

yup Alex is spot on my ancestors where "The Chisholm's of that ilk "from the borders and none of them where chiefs just some lairds and craftmen so "of that ilk" isn't tied to down to chiefship

Ah but it is tied to chiefship, as you put it. Please see my previous post. Chisholm of Chisholm may be interpretted as "Chisholm of that Ilk."

[skauwt]

Ah but it is tied to chiefship, as you put it. Please see my previous post. Chisholm of Chisholm may be interpretted as "Chisholm of that Ilk."

so your telling me my ancestor was a chief in the 1550s at the borders? ive traced my tree back to just after the 1520s and the of that ilk is stop being used by about 1600

[skauwt]

Yes, if your ancestor went by the designation "of that Ilk" then he was the head of the Name & would have borne the undifferenced ancestral arms that were originally borne by the progenitor of the Chisholm clan.

thanks for the input ,i should really get my backside down to the hawick heritage hub the Chisholm society genealogist reckons they have a good amount documents regarding my ancestry ive been meaning to get down and research more indepth as pre 1620 its a bit murky with regards to there titles and land

the book surnames and clansman by micheal robson has a fair few bits in it regarding my ancestry it seems they had a interesting life down there and plenty border based mischief with the local law at the time

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Yes, if your ancestor went by the designation "of that Ilk" then he was the head of the Name & would have borne the undifferenced ancestral arms that were originally borne by the progenitor of the Chisholm clan.

Quite right.

Unfortunately in recent times "of that Ilk" has become the favored post-nominal suffix of any number of would-be tricksters, mountebanks, and frauds. Perhaps the most recent of these two-bit identity thieves to come under the glare of public exposure was the fellow masquerading as "Aiken of that Ilk"-- who went to incredible lengths to bamboozle the slack-jawed mouth breathers clinging to his kilt. His most outrageous bit of genealogical larceny involved forging a tombstone! Caught in the act by the police, Mr. Aiken has not been heard of recently. But undoubtedly, like all con-men, he'll be back as soon as he thinks the heat's off.

[JSFMACLJR]

But he has raised his ugly head again, Scott, in the disguise of "The Scotsman." The big give-away was the post he made of his goat hair sporran, with the assumed crest of two birds of some sort.

Busted!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Perhaps Mr. Aiken (known colloquially as "Aiken that Oik") should consider as his motto:

TRUTH WILL OUT

Just a thought...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

But he has raised his ugly head again, Scott, in the disguise of "The Scotsman." The big give-away was the post he made of his goat hair sporran, with the assumed crest of two birds of some sort.

Busted!

Sandy, in heraldic terms those are known as "birds of a feather" and originated with the Sobiesky-Stuarts, and have been passed down through a long line of fakes and frauds to the present individual who has adopted them "by his own hand" (or should that be purloined??), Lyon refusing to entertain his claims-- forged tombstone or not.

[BoldHighlander]

But he has raised his ugly head again, Scott, in the disguise of "The Scotsman." The big give-away was the post he made of his goat hair sporran, with the assumed crest of two birds of some sort.

Busted!

Sandy, in heraldic terms those are known as "birds of a feather" and originated with the Sobiesky-Stuarts, and have been passed down through a long line of fakes and frauds to the present individual who has adopted them "by his own hand" (or should that be purloined??), Lyon refusing to entertain his claims-- forged tombstone or not.

And here I was starting to suspect that Tartanraven had returned under a different guise.

I must say, personally, it is such a pleasure to be in the company of gentlemen such as yourselves