untraditional traditions

[Semiomniscient]

I think you have to consider what lies within the "spirit of tradition" versus simple non-conformism or contemporary styles. Tradition implies a long standing way of doing things. Contemporary styles of kilts, such as utilikilts and their ilk are hardly long enough to have formed a tradition, but are instead at this point a style of fashion. Whereas 4-yard box pleated kilts are a tradition that has been revived and has gained more acceptance lately.
Things such as white kilt hose, tartan flashes, flat caps, and their ilk, while not traditional to Scottish national dress, do fall within the "spirit of tradition" rather than outside of it attempting to do its own thing. Those things are more modern styles that are appealing to the dress' Scottishness. Whereas most contemporary styles of kilts are not Scottish and don't attempt to be, but rather appeal either from a sense of comfort or style on its own supposed merit.
Honestly, I think comparing contemporary kilted fashion with traditional Scottish attire and modern Scottish attire is problematic as they don't blend well and aren't really all that much related. If it weren't for calling them all kilts--which is only done because of rear pleats, we could be just as obliged to throw sarongs in the midst of the discussion.

[CMcG]

<snip>
Honestly, I think comparing contemporary kilted fashion with traditional Scottish attire and modern Scottish attire is problematic as they don't blend well and aren't really all that much related. If it weren't for calling them all kilts--which is only done because of rear pleats, we could be just as obliged to throw sarongs in the midst of the discussion.

I suppose I cast a fairly wide net and some of the things mentioned in the OP are much closer to being a tradition than others. That being said, this is the Modern Kilt Wear section of the forum and apparently "the mid 1980s to today" is fair game. Let's stick to the overall forum rules and leave MUGS, sarong or otherwise, out.

As for "contemporary kilted fashion," time will tell if they become a tradition or not. They seem to be gaining popularity as opposed to being a taste of the season. They are not my cup of tea, so perhaps someone else could comment on the presence of any developing conventions in the world of modern kilts?

[Lyle1]

Wow, some very good comments.

I agree that many men in the US already wear the kilt in an uniquely American way, and I expect that to continue. THCD will probably continue to provide the guidelines for dressy and formal occasions in the US, but American men will look to and adapt contemporary fashions for casual wear. Like it or not, mainstream fashion in the US is becoming increasingly casual, and I think that this trend is, and will continue to be, reflected in the way that men wear kilts in the US. The choice of what jacket, shirt, hat, or shoe to wear will depend more on the occasion than the fact that a kilt will be part of the outfit. As an example, Brogues/wingtips are dress shoes and will not be chosen for truly casual occasions, whether a kilt is worn or not! If an American man chooses to wear a kilt to an event for which jeans would be very appropriate, the clothes that he wears with his kilt are going to reflect that level of dress.

[macwilkin]

Wow, some very good comments.

I agree that many men in the US already wear the kilt in an uniquely American way, and I expect that to continue. THCD will probably continue to provide the guidelines for dressy and formal occasions in the US, but American men will look to and adapt contemporary fashions for casual wear. Like it or not, mainstream fashion in the US is becoming increasingly casual, and I think that this trend is, and will continue to be, reflected in the way that men wear kilts in the US. The choice of what jacket, shirt, hat, or shoe to wear will depend more on the occasion than the fact that a kilt will be part of the outfit. As an example, Brogues/wingtips are dress shoes and will not be chosen for truly casual occasions, whether a kilt is worn or not! If an American man chooses to wear a kilt to an event for which jeans would be very appropriate, the clothes that he wears with his kilt are going to reflect that level of dress.

Of course it should be noted that not all American men choose to dress this way. Let's not generalize, please.

T.

[davidlpope]

Of course it should be noted that not all American men choose to dress this way. Let's not generalize, please.

T.

Todd,

Point taken. Not all kilted American men dress alike. It is an intriguing question, though- "Is there a distinctly American style of kilt-wearing" which is separate and apart from THCD?

At the risk of generalizing, (which seems necessary when one talks about "traditions" of any sort, given their nature), I think that American kilt-wearers can be divided into (at least) two categories: those who attempt to wear THCD and those who do not.

I think one should be able to create a taxonomy that reflects the sort of kilted attire that has been worn around at Highland Games, etc., in the US for the past forty years or so. That style, in itself, could be considered a tradition of uniquely American kilt-wearing.

In other words, this would be similar to the distinction that Ben Silver makes between their English-styled blazer here:
http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...5&display=4584
and their American-styled blazer, here:
http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...5&display=8370

This is what I tried to capture with my descriptions, but perhaps I was not descriptive enough. I guess what I'm getting at would be a list of "in-group" factors that would make one recognized as a kilted American but not as a kilted Highlander (and vice versa).

David

[davidlpope]

As an example, Brogues/wingtips are dress shoes and will not be chosen for truly casual occasions, whether a kilt is worn or not!

Actually, brogues/wingtips are not dress shoes. They're traditionally country shoes, but have been mis-adopted by many men as appropriate for business dress. In this way they're similar to "button-downs", which were designed to be worn open-necked while one played polo, not while wearing a tie (despite Brooks Brothers having made a killing of of selling them to new college grads for interviews!). All that being said, both these items are now "traditions" "more honored in the breach than the observance."

David

[Bugbear]

I'm not sure modern kilt styles will develop a tradition in America. Kilt wearing doesn't seem like a strong enough phenomenon here. That's how I started to feel after I backed away from kilt wearing.

People in America do wear all sorts of clothing styles from all over the world, and all mixed up, and that is an American phenomenon , though. Can't speak for other cultures in other countries.

[MacBean]

I like all things in balance so that modern and traditional each has their place. What is the THCD equivalent of shorts, a T-shirt, and sneakers?

I am already finding tweed jackets and wool hose, while welcome in winter, are too hot in May, so leave my jacket behind when going out. In and about the house I sometimes push my socks down to the shoe (scrunched?). I confess I have also taken to wearing moccasins about the house with kilts; I think they look very well together; were they to become an American kilt tradition, I wouldn't mind at all. I have relaxed other aspects of the traditional dress code and just choose whichever shirt suits the kilt. I find quite a variety of shirts, though admit that Tattersal-types look good too.

I find I wear a relaxed kilted look about the house or to concerts. To Celtic festivals or restaurants I tend to THCD because I think the effort to preserve these is important.

[Lyle1]

Actually, brogues/wingtips are not dress shoes. They're traditionally country shoes, but have been mis-adopted by many men as appropriate for business dress. In this way they're similar to "button-downs", which were designed to be worn open-necked while one played polo, not while wearing a tie (despite Brooks Brothers having made a killing of of selling them to new college grads for interviews!). All that being said, both these items are now "traditions" "more honored in the breach than the observance."

David

Regardless of what they were designed for, they are now sold as dress shoes and Americans wear them as dress shoes. The country way of life for which they were apparently designed pretty much ended with WWII. Yes there are still English and Scottish gentry with country estates, but they are pretty much irrelevant to the American way of life.

[Lyle1]

Of course it should be noted that not all American men choose to dress this way. Let's not generalize, please.

T.

Yes, of course, you are correct, that's why there we have both a THCD forum and the Modern Kilt Wear forum in which this thread is posted. I was not criticizing fans of THCD; I was stating that there are many kilt wearers who do not choose to follow THCD patterns in their daily dress.