untraditional traditions

[CMcG]

Outside the Highlands, could untraditional be a new tradition?

Without bashing Traditional Highland Civilian Dress (THCD), what other styles of kilted dress are becoming or have become new traditions?

After having read various threads on this site, I'm starting to get a better grasp of what THCD is. It seems, however, that many kilted folk do not fit into that mode...

Whether this is a question of people not knowing about traditional conventions or people knowing the "rules" before they break them, there is a lot of variation! Perhaps there are regional styles of kilting other than Highland? I have a great appreciation and respect for THCD but for the purpose of this thread, let us say vive la différence!

Could the box pleat kilt (a revived, historical style) become a new tradition?

In hotter climates, what accommodations might become standard?

How about traditional-ish outfits but with things like tartan flashes and ties, general concern for matching colours, flat caps, wearing tartans other than that of one's clan, P/V or acrylic, semi-dress sporrans, etc?

Are there relaxed dress codes for casual/formal? Say tee-shirt, boots, and scrunched down hose for daywear and only as much as jacket and tie for evening wear?

Could modern kilts (Utilikilt, Alphakilt, Sportkilt, USAK casual, Bear kilt, etc) be the new jeans of the kilted world?

Other untraditional traditions?

[Jock Scot]

Interesting question there and who knows what the answer is. Of course you can add to your tradition list, school, college, regimental, family, State traditions too. OK lets keep with the kilt and I think non THCD traditions may possibly happen when Scots tartans are swapped for State, country(non Scotland), college, county tartans which may become more common outwith Scotland. There is a new State tartan that has been "launched" here on this website today, for example. Or, of course plain, non tweed and non tartan cloths are in the running as possibilities too.

Now I posed this question(in another way) in a discussion here, called " Ponderings of an Ancient Scot". Some thought that, outside Scotland, the moving away from Scots Clan tartans was already starting to happen and why not? I agree with that train of thought, too. Some thought that the Scots connection(theirs probably) was too strong still, certainly for them for their lifetime and probably for their grand children's lifetime too. I think they are right too. Eventually though, if the kilt survives outside Scotland and is not just a flash in the pan(who knows it could be?) for those with little or no Scots connections, the non Scots tartans will prevail outwith Scotland and then I think your non THCD traditions will flourish. How long hence? I could not even hazard a guess!

[Standard]

I would hazard a guess that the THCD code will always be one to strive for, much like the standards of dress for non highland events. Those in the know will still want to dress "properly" for the occasion. But much like the trend of wearing a suit jacket with jeans, the the various bits of highland dress are sure to be intermingled with more casual wear.

As the kilt moves out of the realm of Scotland and those of Scottish decent and into the rest of the world there will surely be an adaptation of the kilt into the local culture and customs. THCD will not go away, but will not be strictly followed on a daily basis either.

You asked if the casual kilt could become the jeans of the modern kilted community I'd say yes, most definately. The likes of Utilikilt are suberbly fitted to that task. I'd never think of changing oil in my auto, or doing a bit of wood working in my tuxedo nor my tank for that matter, but to do so in jeans or a canvas "modern" kilt would be natural.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the kilt wearing community outside, and even inside, Scotland in the next couple of generations.

[Bugbear]

I'm having flash backs to the long boring discussions of what a "tradition" is: Post Traditional Stress Disorder.

[Good Egg]

If it isn't between 4 - 9 yards long, pleated at the rear with an apron left over right at the front then it isn't really a kilt IMHO. Not too bothered about the material as far as casual kilts are concerned but those skirts with the narrow apron, no!

Did the OP mention 'flat caps'? Potentially a damn fine head dress. Can't stand the silly one with deep backs that look like the wearer has jammed them onto the back of his head but that's a matter of style (or the lack there off) but unfortunately they are not suitable for wear with a kilt and anyone attempting to pervert the course of kilt wearing in that way should be shot, after they have been flogged.

I didn't really get the OPs point about box pleats, they are a conventional pleat, maybe not as popular now as they once were but there is nothing un-trad about them.

Herumph!

[davidlpope]

Outside the Highlands, could untraditional be a new tradition?

Perhaps there are regional styles of kilting other than Highland?

Could the box pleat kilt (a revived, historical style) become a new tradition?

In hotter climates, what accommodations might become standard?

How about traditional-ish outfits but with things like tartan flashes and ties, general concern for matching colours, flat caps, wearing tartans other than that of one's clan, P/V or acrylic, semi-dress sporrans, etc?

Are there relaxed dress codes for casual/formal? Say tee-shirt, boots, and scrunched down hose for daywear and only as much as jacket and tie for evening wear?

I think most of these "traditions" already exist in the US, in that there's almost an accepted "uniform" for US kilt-wearers, based in my estimation, on those items readily marketed to them by purveyors of "Scottish" clothing.

There's a distinct "American" look to most US kilt-wearers, particularly here in North Carolina. This usually includes a Scottish-themed t-shirt or golf shirt coupled with a traditional or low-yardage kilt, kilt hose normally white or ivory, often a formal sporran worn in daytime, or a very conspicuously-matched sporran/ kilt belt/ sgian dubh set.

Another variation on this theme includes a short-sleeved "military" shirt with epaulettes, sometimes worn with tartan "shoulder-boards" which match the tartan of the kilt, and usually lots and lots of military decorations. When the weather's cold enough black "Argyll" jackets with chrome buttons come out, usually accompanied by white shirts and tartan ties. Flashes are often tartan and ghillie brogues are often worn. I think there's generally an emphasis on the colors of hose matching the tartan.

The kilt also seems to be worn more casually, sometimes with flip-flops, "crocs", or hiking boots and "scrunchy" socks.

I've found that the humid and hot weather here in the South makes lower-yardage 4yd box-pleateed kilts and 5-6 yard knife-pleated kilts much more pleasant.

David

[CMcG]

I'm having flash backs to the long boring discussions of what a "tradition" is: Post Traditional Stress Disorder.

Yes Bugbear, let's not get into a long, boring discussion about what a "tradition" is. I'm hoping for more of a discussion about conventions outside of THCD.

<snip>
I didn't really get the OPs point about box pleats, they are a conventional pleat, maybe not as popular now as they once were but there is nothing un-trad about them.

Courtmount,

I based my comment in the OP about box pleats on Matt Newsome's history of that style of kilt. Apparently it is an older way of pleating that was revived in the 80s. Matt's site is here: http://kilts.albanach.org/

According to some of our traditionalists on the forum, it is rarely (never?) seen in the Highlands...

[Good Egg]

Box pleats as in the Seaforth Highlanders Kilts.

I see nothing wrong with the short sleeve 'military' or 'pilot' style shirt in shirt sleeves. I'd give the tartan epaulets a miss as they would remind me a bit too much of the Bay City Roller's inspired fashions of the 70's. The shirts worn by US LEO's and the military are quite distinctively American so would seem suitable for an Amero-Scot. You can also get tattershal shirts with patch pockets that are quite fetching.

[Standard]

I've found that the humid and hot weather here in the South makes lower-yardage 4yd box-pleateed kilts and 5-6 yard knife-pleated kilts much more pleasant.

David

Exactly one of the points I was trying to make, but didn't do a very good job of. Even here in the cornfields of Illinois the weather is much warmer and more humid (although not as much so as the American Southeast) than is the case in the northern climes of Scotland. The kilt had "naturally" evolved from what was useful in its original setting to be more useful to a variety of climates as it spreads across the world.

[Bugbear]

Yes Bugbear, let's not get into a long, boring discussion about what a "tradition" is. I'm hoping for more of a discussion about conventions outside of THCD. ...

Yep, nip it in the bud, kill it before it grows.