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Faster, Better, Cheaper: The Iron Triangle of Higher Education Assessment


Quote Originally Posted by bricekolob View Post
Not what I am talking about. You are assuming that, not me.
I assumed nothing, it was an example, showing that major differences in price will only happen when either labor, material, or overhead cost are strikingly different between sellers. If someone is working from their home, their overhead cost will be low. If they are in a very small town with low rates on space, again, overhead is low. Since I think it's fairly safe to assume everyone is getting their material from the same group of sources, the major differences will be either in labor rate or overhead. Many businesses online are able to offer the prices they do, simply because they have no storefront...or share a storefront with another business.

So, first, who decides those 3 people are at the top of their game? Also, who decides that they are the best? Who decides that they are as FAST as anyone can go? Seems a little subjective to me.
I don't see how that's subjective unless you're in to subjective equality as a philosophical hobby or something. I don't have any talent making kilts, neither do most people, and it is a very small market, so I'm pretty certain that I'm correct in saying they're among the best kiltmakers in the world. Sounds big and weighty, but like I said, how many full-time (or even part-time, for-profit) kiltmakers can you list? I think we'd be lucky to list a hundred. I am making the assumption that, as full-time professionals rather than hobbyists, they're making kilts as fast as they can, since literally time is equivalent to money, and for a flat rate product, speed is profitable.

So, without picking random, one-in-a-million exceptions, I think it's statistically valid to state things like "top of their game" and "as fast as possible". I didn't say they are the best kiltmakers...rather, they are in a group of the best kiltmakers. If I didn't name someone's name, it was oversight, not rejection, and if you were to grab any random group of professional tailors and put them to work on a flat-rate kilt project, I bet they'll sew about as fast as any of these kiltmakers.


Traditional can me lots of different things. If by traditional, you mean traditionally TRAINED, then that eliminates most of the custom kilt makers on this form. Most have not had the training that others, Like Barb T., has had. Therefore, going by what you say is Traditional, most of the kilts made by people on this forum are NOT traditional and therfore not as good. Sounds a little silly to me.
No, you said all that stuff was traditional. I said "traditional and traditional style, and then put "traditional" in quotes to denote that it was not a concrete descriptor...but let's say "tank" instead, because, like "traditional" in quotes, it's specific enough without specifying exactly how all the little details are handled, and in our discussion of price vs. product, it removes any ambiguity presented by hand-sewn 4-yard box pleats, kingussie pleats, and so forth. 8-yard, knife-pleated kilts are common, so they're easy to compare...the material is close enough to be considered "the same" (how many mills produce 16oz wool tartan?), and the labor going in to the finished product is the same (everyone has to perform the same operations), which leaves the difference in price at the door of labor rate and overhead cost. Incidentally, you can do the same with PV kilts, as I noticed in a quick scan of a bunch of websites.

Again, not what I am talking about. I never said anything about finding cheaper labor in a foreign country. We are talking about USA made goods. Sorry if you got lost in the conversation.
Now, don't huck me in to the trees based on your interpretation or application of my examples! I am certainly not lost in the conversation. Labor and overhead rates are the two greatest potential sources of profit margin. I provided extreme examples, extrapolation is up to you. But here is a less extreme example. The disparity between the Canadian and American economies (in other words, the price of a gallon of milk in Canada, vs America, in each country's respective dollars), and a variant exchange rate, means that even in two Western countries, big-ticket and durable goods may be a better deal when purchased by citizens of one country, in the other country's economy. Another way to think of it is, if you are living in one economy, your make your wages, pay your rent, buy your food, etc. in that economy, then your comparative expenses as a percentage of your income should be very, very similar to your expenses in another economy...for example, the USA, Britain, Canada, and Australia.

Excepting petrol, speeding tickets, and ammunition, your standard of living should be very similar in all four economies, but because the exchange rate isn't keeping exact pace with a gallon of milk in Australia vs Britannia vs Canadia vs Americania, you can get a kilt comparatively cheaper right now if you are Canadian and can sort out a purchase from an American kiltmaker.

By the same token, the various measures of cost of living can be used within the USA to guess at what areas would have the lowest overhead rates.

That is a good way to justify doing two things:

1. Charging high prices (from a company owners perspective)
2. Paying High prices (from a consumers perspective)

If what you say is true, than you can justify whatever you want.
What you have just stated is the reason that prices are so ridiculously high at Starbucks, Apple, Banana Republic, and other businesses compared to the quality of the product. What you have identified is a little game that retailers and consumers play...if you are a retailer, and you charge too little, nobody takes you seriously. You must price your product equivalent to your competition, to be considered by an uneducated consumer as being in the same range of quality or performance. To a blockheaded consumer, paying more must mean a better product. This is an assumption leveraged by many a mall retailer to increase profit margin. I am leery of applying that assertion in this case, as quality goods in a niche market tend to be built for their own sake, less so with profit as the ultimate goal. I'm not saying people make kilts out of the goodness of their hearts, I'm saying it's one of few industries where the quality of the product is expected to drive profit, compared to "mall goods" where profit and price point are allowed to drive product quality.

I have just purchased two kilts within a years time and fullfilled ALL three of what you are saying.
I'm glad you feel that way. Frankly, if I'm getting a kilt from the vendors whose sites I've browsed through links here, I'm pretty sure I'm getting a good deal. May I assume you're referring to PV kilts? If so, the price differences between vendors weren't large, when the same (or very similar) item is concerned. I'm not sure where the price disparity you're referring to, is coming from...because I think I'm free to assume that the quality is similar, and unless you got something off the rack, they were built in similar time by similar methods.

I think most people are smart enough to figure things out. Most people, me included, realize that a good quality item will cost more than normal. However, we also realize that paying a high price, just because some people say high price = high quality, does not always mean you will get high quality. It might even be the opposite In some cases, it is the sign of someone trying to rip you off.
Most people are savvy enough to catch the last, if it smacks them in the face, or if it's being sold in a full-page paid advertisement, or being hawked by the Slap Chop guy (look it up on YouTube). Otherwise, I think (as someone famously said) that individuals can be intelligent, whereas people are dumb, panicky animals.

Again this is my basic point: You can make High Quality items, in the USA, for a good price. Not necessarily a cheap price, but a good, fair price. I would say, Rocky, that the following groups you mentioned:

Good Quality / Good price
HIGH Quality and HIGH price.

Overlap more than people would realize.
So...I don't get it, then. I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in price between retailers, in this niche market, any more than I've noticed a huge difference in price between bagpipe retailers, sporran makers, or sock knitters. Are you saying that everyone but the makers(?) of your two recent kilts is overcharging? Are you just saying that the kiltmaker you've chosen has a lower overhead or labor rate? Are you suggesting there is a different business model that aspiring kiltmakers should follow? Are you willing to consider that other products may be of better quality material or construction than your purchases? I'm not slighting anyone, I'm only trying to cover all the bases as to why one kilt might cost more than another.

I think we can AGREE to DISAGREE
I think the only thing we might all agree on is that we all like the sound of our own keyboards clicking away . I'm out...got other stuff I gotta do ...but I'll read your reply, should you choose to ...

-Sean