A question of taste and protocol.

**Kilted Carver** · 3rd June 10, 03:22 PM

I am wanting to make a banner holder for some Lamont tartan that I may be getting soon. The wooden piece that the tartan will hang from is the issue. I will carve in it ( big surprise ehh?) I was thinking of having the standard on one end, CLAN LAMONT in big letters across it and the crest at the far right end.
What I was wondering is it ok to have the standard on it? I don't want to do anything to offend or for anyone to look down on us for.
Thanks,
Carver

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 3rd June 10, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kilted Carver

I am wanting to make a banner holder for some Lamont tartan that I may be getting soon. The wooden piece that the tartan will hang from is the issue. I will carve in it ( big surprise ehh?) I was thinking of having the standard on one end, CLAN LAMONT in big letters across it and the crest at the far right end.
What I was wondering is it ok to have the standard on it? I don't want to do anything to offend or for anyone to look down on us for.
Thanks,
Carver

I'm not quite sure, from your description, what this is going to look like-- I'm assuming it will be a "T" shape with the tartan hanging from the cross piece of the "T"? Sorry, I just cant visualize what you are going to do.

Any how, more to the point, if you are going to carve the stap and buckle "clan badge", then there is no problem. On the other hand, if you were thinking of carving a shield displaying the coat of arms of the chief, well, that's a "no-no" and you probably shouldn't do it.

Hope that answers your question.

**Kilted Carver** · 3rd June 10, 03:50 PM

Thanks,
Sorry for the lack of details, It will be a board about 3-4 ft long, about 7-8 inches wide, that the tartan will hang down from. I plan on putting a type of bracket on back that a pole or dowel will slide in for carrying or for displaying.
To be sure I am understand, is the Arms and the Standard the same?
Sorry for my ignorance in this, but I am looking at the picture on pg 189 of the Collins Scottish Clan and Family Encyclopedia. It is of the standard which looks like a pennant. Thanks again for the help.

**macwilkin** · 3rd June 10, 04:07 PM

This article from Lady Saltoun, the Chief of the Clan Fraser, may be helpful:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/heraldry.html

At Highland Games wherever they may take place, where other Clans are present, it is proper to display flags which show the Clan Fraser Clansmen's Crest Badge, comprising the Chief's Crest with a strap and buckle inscribed with the Motto or Slogan, although the name of the Clan should NOT be added, as Clansmen should know their own Crest Badge.

The flag may be either a Banner (flown from a vertical pole attached to one side of it) or a Gonfanon (suspended from a horizontal cross bar along its top edge).

However, it is NOT correct to use the Banner or Gonfanon in the presence of the Chief, only when the Chief is not present.

The Standard may ONLY be used by the Chief, and the standard of a Chief who is a Lord of Parliament should be 5yrds long.

Any flag bearing the plain arms may only be used by the Chief.

The Pinsel is a flag used to denote a person to whom the Chief has delegated authority to represent him on a particular occasion. It should be 4'6" long and 2' high.

Regards,

T.

**Kilted Carver** · 3rd June 10, 04:12 PM

Thats what I needed, Thanks for your help in this gentlemen.

**macwilkin** · 3rd June 10, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kilted Carver

Thats what I needed, Thanks for your help in this gentlemen.

Glad to be of assistance to you. Lady Saltoun's site is a wealth of information.

T.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 3rd June 10, 09:30 PM

Eric,

NOW I get it.

What you might want to do is carve the strap & buckle crest on the right side of LAMONT, and carve a crab apple tree on the left side. (For all of you non-Lamonts out there, the crab apple tree is the plant badge of Clan Lamont.)

This style of flag is technically called a gonfallon, and traces it's origins to pre-Roman times. Having looked at you website I am sure this is going to be spectacular when finished.

**Kilted Carver** · 4th June 10, 12:14 AM

Thank you sir, I am going to try to put a extra good effort on this one.

**Chas** · 4th June 10, 02:41 AM

Hi Eric,

As you know, The Rev. Fr. Peter Noel Lamont of that Ilk is the Chief of the Name and Arms of Lamont. He is also a parish priest in Marayong (a suburb of Sydney), New South Wales, Australia. If you were to carve the Clansman's Crest Badge on one end of the board and the Chief's Arms on the other and label the arms as "The Arms of the Chief of the Clan Lamont", I cannot see that anyone could object. There would be no difference from a depiction of the arms in an encyclopedia. Personally, I believe that for accuracy, the complete arms should be depicted and not just the shield:

The other alternative is to write to him and ask:

THE REV. FATHER PETER LAMONT OF THAT ILK
St.Andrew the Apostle Catholic Presbytery
40 Breakfast Road MARAYONG
NEW SOUTH WALES
2148

Regards

Chas

**macwilkin** · 4th June 10, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Eric,

NOW I get it.

What you might want to do is carve the strap & buckle crest on the right side of LAMONT, and carve a crab apple tree on the left side. (For all of you non-Lamonts out there, the crab apple tree is the plant badge of Clan Lamont.)

This style of flag is technically called a gonfallon, and traces it's origins to pre-Roman times. Having looked at you website I am sure this is going to be spectacular when finished.

The Clan Lamont Society at one time offered an "alternate" badge for its members to wear besides the traditonal buckle & strap badge:

T.