Clan Hierarchies

[xman]

As I understand it Anderson isn't technically a clan with a chief, but a sept of Clan Donald, the tartan simply a surnamed fashion tartan that Andersons have adopted. My step father is a Paton which I'm told is a sept of Anderson though. My natural father and I are MacDonald of Clanranald which is a clan with a chief (styled Captain), but Clanranald is still within Clan Donald. Can a clan be a sept of another clan? How does that work? What are the correct terms involved here?

X

[HeathBar]

From the Clan Anderson website:

According to the Lord Lyon, there was an Anderson of that Ilk in the 1500's. This specific Anderson is unknown to us today. But this reference verifies that the Andersons are a clan in their own right, despite having a shared ancestry with other groups.

Sounds like a clan of its own.

[DeWayne Ross]

There are those that would also place Anderson as a sept of Clan Ross. It is listed as such in some publications. I think most Andersons would agree as to clan in it's own right.

[BoldHighlander]

On their website, under officers, they list a "Clan Chieftain" in Scotland. They always have had a good presence at our local games (in my photo thread of the Bellingham Games you can see some Anderson's).

According to Scottish Clans and Tartans by Neil Grant in the 16th century arms were granted to an 'Anderson of that ilk', but neither the family nor the place (implied by the word ilk) has ever been discovered. However, it was possible for such a grant to be made by the Lord Lyon King of Arms on grounds that an Anderson chieftain 'represented' the clan clan or 'community' of Andersons.
The most notable branches of the clan in modern times have been the Andersons of Dowhill, traced to the early 16th century, the Andersons of Wester Ardbreck in Banffshire and the Andersons of Candacraig in Strathdon.

There is also a tradition of association between the MacAndrews and the MacDonells of Achluachrach.

[Sketraw]

I think it would be better to get more accurate information on the Heraldry and History of Clan Anderson from the Anderson Association

[BoldHighlander]

I think it would be better to get more accurate information on the Heraldry and History of Clan Anderson from the Anderson Association

Very nice & in depth site, thanks for the link John
(& much better than the other Anderson site!)

(I don't see anything that really contradicts the info by Neil Grant )

[xman]

Please pardon my misinformation regarding Clan Anderson. The relationship within Clan Donald certainly remains as does my question:

Can a clan be a sept of another clan? How does that work? What are the correct terms involved here?

[Sketraw]

Please pardon my misinformation regarding Clan Anderson. The relationship within Clan Donald certainly remains as does my question:

You could have a confederation of Clans such as Clan Chattan, as far as 'septs' are concerned your looking to a degree at a Victorian invention, see The Romantic Myth of Clan Septs

Because one or a few of a name (regarded as a 'sept') lived within a certain Clan area, that doesnt make all of a particular name were members or associates of that particular Clan. So in my opinion it is wrong to lump all of a particular name as a 'sept'.

Prior to the 1820's a Clan would wonder what the heck you were talking about by saying 'sept'.

Some names would have been associated to a particular Clan as originating there historicaly, however most would not.

[xman]

... as far as 'septs' are concerned your looking to a degree at a Victorian invention, see The Romantic Myth of Clan Septs

Thank-you. The writer's description of what a sept actually is is exactly how I understand the term. My step father, a Paton is a sept to Clan Anderson today merely by a chance of power structures at the time these things were being recorded. Not all Patons will be considered septs of Anderson.

You could have a confederation of Clans such as Clan Chattan,

This seems to describe Clan Donald too. Useful term that one.