Reference to Scots In Old Book, and My Family Brainwashing

[Bugbear]

Trust the family lore.

It's the parts that aren't discussed that are interesting...

[piperdbh]

So what color are those velvet knee breeches?

[tulloch]

I would say pay very close attention to the family lore. It is often incorrect but it is often correct with details that can be quite accurate after many generations.

[macwilkin]

Trust the family lore.

Trust, but verify, to harken back to the Cold War days. As a genealogical librarian, I saw family lore turned on it's ear on a regular basis, not to mention all of the Union ancestors who were believed to be Rebs. ;-)

T.

[Bugbear]

So what color are those velvet knee breeches?

Hmmm, it doesn't say. I don't want to open up that "traditional color of Irish knee breeches" can of worms either. Oops, I guess I just did.

The history of the family, on the other side, goes back to England and other European areas, and one branch hits a void of utter silence. It isn't discussed in the family, and the information appears to be lost...

I did get my late grandmother on that side to discuss her childhood and branch of the family, ranchers/farmers, so that is the heritage I have from that side. I'm wearing overalls mostly now-a-days.

[Bugbear]

Speaking of my heritage from my grandmother...

Kit Carson was of Scots-Irish ancestry according to Hampton Sides's, Blood and Thunder: An Epic of the American West; Doubleday, 2006.

He was a big villain/hero in my home state, depending on who you talk to, of course.

So there's another fingerprint of the Scots Diaspora on my life here in the Desert Southwest.

Just gathering evidence...

[macwilkin]

Speaking of my heritage from my grandmother...

Kit Carson was of Scots-Irish ancestry according to Hampton Sides's, Blood and Thunder: An Epic of the American West; Doubleday, 2006.

He was a big villain/hero in my home state, depending on who you talk to, of course.

So there's another fingerprint of the Scots Diaspora on my life here in the Desert Southwest.

Just gathering evidence...

I highly recommend Dunlay's Kit Carson & the Indians. A very balanced attempt to set the record straight about Carson's place in American history, and avoid the pitfalls of political correctness.

T.

[Lallans]

All right, here is what happened, I wanted to double check.

Because there is an Irish surname involved, which is also a Scottish surname, somewhere along the line the family lore became that the family started in Scotland, moved to Ireland, lived there for a time becoming married into the Irish population, then moved to America. Looks like that branch of the family came from Ireland, and if there were Scottish roots, they were way, way back. There aren't even good explanations of how all this might have happened.

This misconception was then compounded by a misunderstanding of the term "Scots-Irish." Ulster Scots are not what my family were talking about.

Other branches on that side have been supposably traced back to people in America before the Revolution. I'm a little skeptical of that lore, too.

Guess I'll have to get a lein and brat...

Or maybe the velvet knee breeches...

Unless I'm missing something, you're describing an entirely typical Scots-Irish family: starting in say 1600, Scottish settlers moved or were moved to Ireland (most often Ulster), spent a century or more there, and then moved on to the new world in circa 1700. When they arrived in America they were merely The Irish, but after the potato famine Irish arrived in vast numbers, the 'Scotch' (now 'Scots') tag was added on. Which was pretty fair because the two groups are distinct, both by custom and by choice. And I'll contribute the fact that some pretty weird 'origin' traditions in my own family were later either confirmed or greatly supported by research.

[Bugbear]

I highly recommend Dunlay's Kit Carson & the Indians. A very balanced attempt to set the record straight about Carson's place in American history, and avoid the pitfalls of political correctness.

T.

Thanks, cajunscot, I will look for that book.

[Bugbear]

Unless I'm missing something, you're describing an entirely typical Scots-Irish family: starting in say 1600, Scottish settlers moved or were moved to Ireland (most often Ulster), spent a century or more there, and then moved on to the new world in circa 1700. When they arrived in America they were merely The Irish, but after the potato famine Irish arrived in vast numbers, the 'Scotch' (now 'Scots') tag was added on. Which was pretty fair because the two groups are distinct, both by custom and by choice. And I'll contribute the fact that some pretty weird 'origin' traditions in my own family were later either confirmed or greatly supported by research.

I didn't see your post before, sorry.

Well, it's difficult to be completely sure, in this case, other than it looks a whole lot more like this surname was adopted from the English during that time period... Anyway, it looks like they were culturally Irish before coming to America, and that is mainly what I am focused on. Also, this is one strand of the whole family tangle, there are plenty of other places and lines involved.

And I am only joking about lein and brats or velvet knee breeches.