Reference to Scots In Old Book, and My Family Brainwashing

[Lallans]

I didn't see your post before, sorry.

Well, it's difficult to be completely sure, in this case, other than it looks a whole lot more like this surname was adopted from the English during that time period... Anyway, it looks like they were culturally Irish before coming to America, and that is mainly what I am focused on. Also, this is one strand of the whole family tangle, there are plenty of other places and lines involved.

And I am only joking about lein and brats or velvet knee breeches.

People were transplanted to Ulster from both sides of the Anglo-Scottish border so an English ethnicity from that period is of course perfectly possible. The effort in large part seems to have been to reduce the ingrained fighting and general scrappiness of the people in the Border Marches following the union of the two kingdoms, so I would suggest that groups on both sides of the original border were culturally all but identical- certainly they seem to have switched sides just as readily as any group of people, historical or present-day, in the same situation. If you have a name that could be either English or Scottish or Scottish Lowlander, one way to decide which side your family would be on is to study where they landed in Ulster- for obvious reasons they usually weren't mixed in their new settlements.

[Cygnus]

While I would recommend following the "family lore", I'd still take whatever measures you can to verify. The "Scots Irish" tag had been tossed around my family for quite some time but the discovery of some folios from a great-great-great-uncle's journal showed that, while his grandfather was born in Ireland, the family certainly wasn't "Scots Irish". My sixth great grandfather went to Cork Co. along with the military in 1798 (though we're unsure in what capacity - he was certainly not an officer but was able to take his young wife with him). After staying some years in Cork, the family found their way to Edinburgh.

So look into it, but when all else fails the best you can do is trust what you've been told.

[Bugbear]

I see what the confusion is in what I'm trying to convey. They weren't from Ulster; they weren't Ulster-Scots.

Can't say for sure, but I don't think this thread of the family was English either, but the surname would have most likely come from the English.

My family had the term "Scots-Irish" misunderstood and mixed up. The term "Ulster" would receive a blank stare and several blinks...

[Lallans]

While I would recommend following the "family lore", I'd still take whatever measures you can to verify. The "Scots Irish" tag had been tossed around my family for quite some time but the discovery of some folios from a great-great-great-uncle's journal showed that, while his grandfather was born in Ireland, the family certainly wasn't "Scots Irish". My sixth great grandfather went to Cork Co. along with the military in 1798 (though we're unsure in what capacity - he was certainly not an officer but was able to take his young wife with him). After staying some years in Cork, the family found their way to Edinburgh.

So look into it, but when all else fails the best you can do is trust what you've been told.

Cork was a major centre for (mostly) English immigration at one point. It was Within The Pale. The rest of Ireland was of course Beyond The Pale. Once in my youth I tried to impress a young Irish woman with the statement that I had an ancestor from Cork and she merely sniffed and said that she wasn't surprised (the ancestor was in fact English- but she didn't have to be told that).

[Cygnus]

Cork was a major centre for (mostly) English immigration at one point. It was Within The Pale. The rest of Ireland was of course Beyond The Pale. Once in my youth I tried to impress a young Irish woman with the statement that I had an ancestor from Cork and she merely sniffed and said that she wasn't surprised (the ancestor was in fact English- but she didn't have to be told that).

I'd read that before and wondered if these ancestors were English. My great^3 uncle's journal is pretty clear that they had come from Scotland with the British troops because of the Irish Rebellion of 1798 (the United Irishmen Rebellion).

[macwilkin]

People were transplanted to Ulster from both sides of the Anglo-Scottish border so an English ethnicity from that period is of course perfectly possible. The effort in large part seems to have been to reduce the ingrained fighting and general scrappiness of the people in the Border Marches following the union of the two kingdoms, so I would suggest that groups on both sides of the original border were culturally all but identical- certainly they seem to have switched sides just as readily as any group of people, historical or present-day, in the same situation. If you have a name that could be either English or Scottish or Scottish Lowlander, one way to decide which side your family would be on is to study where they landed in Ulster- for obvious reasons they usually weren't mixed in their new settlements.

You will also find the occasional land grant to a veteran of Cromwell's New Model Army, as well as Protestant refugees & settlers from Germany & France, the most famous example being the noted frontiersman David Crockett, whose ancestor came from La Rochelle.

Spot on post, though, especially regarding the borders. I highly recommend the late George Macdonald Fraser's The Steel Bonnets for a riping read about Scotland's "Wild West".

T.

[Bugbear]

I suppose I will need to switch gears at some point, and look into Irish history. I'm not Scottish.
Right at the moment I am entangled with other histories, though.

Thanks for the book recommendation, cajunscot.