over doing the bling?

[Tobus]

I apologize if this seems OT or snobbish, or both, but I am trying to point out that (Saxon) white tie is as cookie cutter as you can get, while Scots white tie is anything but.

That is quite possibly the most profound statement in this whole thread, and it is a point very well taken.

I've always been told that (in Saxon dress, anyway) a gentleman should always dress for formal events in such a manner that the day after, no one should be able to remember what he wore. All color and 'bling' is supposed to be worn by his lady, and she is the one who is supposed to attract the attention, not him.

With Highland attire, from all I've seen, it's quite the opposite. With that in mind, 'bling' should be perfectly acceptable up to the point just shy of where it just looks foolish.

[AFS1970]

...With that in mind, 'bling' should be perfectly acceptable up to the point just shy of where it just looks foolish.

Finding that elusive line and not crossing it would be the point then, wouldn't it?

[MacLowlife]

Finding that elusive line and not crossing it would be the point then, wouldn't it?

To borrow a phrase from DECO,
They know their limits cause they cross 'em every night.


Sometimes, the only way to know how far is too far is to go there. And sometimes, we only realize years later that we may have gone too far. Luckily, there is generally someone who has gone even further.

[OC Richard]

This is the Evening Dress that looks "right" to me:









From The Scottish National Dress, 5th Edition, Wm Anderson & Sons, By Appointment To His Late Majesty King George V:

Highland Dress In The Evening

Coat and Waistcoat:
1. The Coatee (what we call Prince Charlies)
2. The Doublet (what we call Regulation Doublet)

Sporrans:
The sporran is usually made of sealskin or other fur with top and fittings silver or plated. Long horsehair sporrans are now seldom used. Leather sporrans are not used with evening dress.

Stockings:
These are knitted to match the tartan of the kilt, or diced stockings of different colours are correct.

Shoes:
Patent brogues, either lacing or buckling, are most usual, but plain patent court shoes with buckles are sometimes used.

Neckwear:
A wing collar or a lace jabot must be worn at all evening dress functions. If a wing collar is worn, a white or black bow tie must be used with it. Certain authorities maintain that a white tie should never be used, but the more generally accepted view is that the tie may be black or white at the discretion of the wearer. If a lace jabot be worn it takes the place of the collar, and the lace ruffles may be worn at the writsts.

Plaid:
The belted plaid may be worn at any evening dress functions.

[MacLowlife]

OCR, as usual, you have provided us with lovely illustrations. But look at the gent's coatee, if you will, in the top picture. It has bucket cuffs and fewer buttons than we have come to expect on the front of a PC. AND, the formal vest appears to have five buttons, despite its low stance.

I had to check, but I have examined five different PC jackets and four of them have "self" fabric lapels, i.e., neither satin nor faille, but the same fabric as the rest of the coat. Again, your dapper gent departs, with decidedly shiny lapels.

The Kinloch Anderson Coatee has a similar button arrangement ( i.e., single breasted) but has neither the shiney lapels nor the bucket cuffs


http://www.kinlochanderson.com/mens/...-barathea.html

Anyone care to comment further?

What about those shiny lapels- U or Non U?

Or might we ask T or non-T?

Oh, and by the way, do check out the length of the checkered argyll. I realize it is a painting, but the skirts appear to be about as long as the sleeves. Again, I have limited resources, but a quick check reveals most modern kilt jackets tend to be several inches shorter than the sleeves. Or am I wrong again?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

OCR, as usual, you have provided us with lovely illustrations. But look at the gent's coatee, if you will, in the top picture. It has bucket cuffs and fewer buttons than we have come to expect on the front of a PC. AND, the formal vest appears to have five buttons, despite its low stance.

My formal waistcoats all have either 3, 4, or 5 buttons, but the length of the closures only varies by about an inch. It's really all down to the tailoring.

Mass produced jackets are constructed to meet certain price points, hence unnecessarily expensive items-- like "bucket cuffs", and four-button waistcoats tend to be replaced with cheaper to produce alternatives.

I had to check, but I have examined five different PC jackets and four of them have "self" fabric lapels, i.e., neither satin nor faille, but the same fabric as the rest of the coat. Again, your dapper gent departs, with decidedly shiny lapels.

The Kinloch Anderson Coatee has a similar button arrangement ( i.e., single breasted) but has neither the shiney lapels nor the bucket cuffs: http://www.kinlochanderson.com/mens/...-barathea.html Anyone care to comment further?

Silk lapels-- de rigueur on formal jackets, have gone the way of bucket cuffs-- victims of cost analysis in the cutting room. When purchasing a coatee from Kinloch Anderson one may specify silk lapels. However, if buying "off the peg" from their showroom in Leith, then the lapels will probably be self-faced.

Most retailers, it seems, add extra buttons to their coatees to draw attention away from the fact that that jackets have self-faced lapels.

What about those shiny lapels- U or Non U?

Nancy Mitford would approve.

Or might we ask T or non-T?

Definitely T.

Oh, and by the way, do check out the length of the checkered argyll. I realize it is a painting, but the skirts appear to be about as long as the sleeves. Again, I have limited resources, but a quick check reveals most modern kilt jackets tend to be several inches shorter than the sleeves. Or am I wrong again?

It's all a matter of tailoring-- the hem of the jacket should come to the bottom of the fell of the kilt. The stature and build of the wearer will, ultimately, determine both the length of the bodice of the jacket and the length of the sleeve.