XMTS mentioned

[McClef]

MOR is correct - Rule #5 does not prevent the mention of religion and religious activity. The reason why the person AFS1970 refers to has not attracted complaints may well be because they have not espoused their religion as being better than another etc.

We have had some very good threads, especially regarding kilts in religious situations without heat or arguing pros and cons.

And it is not just comments made about one religion alone that the rule gets cited against as has been claimed. Look at past threads and not just at the current ones to see what I mean.

[AFS1970]

After re-reading Rule #5 two things occurred to me. First of all I have never seen a post in my short time here that espoused or compared one religion as better or more favorable to another, even in one case where it was ruled that it had. However I have seen a few where just the opposite has happened, a post had compared a religion as worse than or less favorable than another or in general. This is far worse in my mind because it is far less civil and less community minded. There are religions that I disagree with, I just don't feel the need to post about them here, as such situations rarely have anything to do with kilts, tartans or pretty much anything Scottish.

[McClef]

Whether is it espousing or belittling the same problem would be created re rule #5.

There are folk here from many different religions and none but we (I hope) are united in our love of kilts, and Scottish/Celtic culture etc.

So when a tartan is designed by a well respected and knowledgeable member that is successful and well publicised that surely deserves our congratulations and celebration irrespective of any other factor.

As a certain, brilliant, TV ad here in the UK says:

"Simples."

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Well said, AFS 1970.

[herminator]

C´mon folks, it´s NOT about religion, it´s about a greatlooking tartan that Matt can be proud of.
We might have disagreements about the event, the pope, christianity, religion ... but here and now that is not what it´s about!

I am protestant but does that hinder me in admiring the work and thought that went into the design? No!
Does that mean I cannot like the tartan? No!
Should we not discuss anything where words of religious connotation might be mentioned?

Oh G---d!! Is this some kind of kindergarten?

I hope not!

Shalom
Hermann (who is not sure if he may write "shalom here any more)

P.S. I gave the information to Mark Shea because I thought it a good idea to have XMTS mentioned on a wellknown catholic blog - was that wrong?

[McClef]

AFS1970 and MOR:

This rule is NOT enforced more heavily than any other. All rules are enforced as necessary but it is the nature of things that some rules are breached more often than others.

Every time we, as Moderators, issue timely warnings in an attempt to prevent a thread like this and its predecessors from the destruction that some contributors seem bent upon consigning it to, it is not for our own pleasure or power but because we are charged with a responsibility for keeping the rules.

Do we have our own views and opinions? Of course we do, but when we cannot express them according to the rules - rules to which all members have to read and subscribe to, then we keep our silence.

Those rules have come about from long experience and have helped X Marks become a respected and trusted site in the kilting world.

And even outside it.

[AFS1970]

OK, I will grant you that enforcement is proportionate to infraction, however there are many who seem to scream breech from the mountain top when they think this one has been broken, thus alerting the forum staff, and will let any other infraction go away unnoticed. The forum staff obviously has to act on any complaint received.

I can think of one forum member that I am of a different religion from (I am sure there are many more) who I do not find offensive in the slightest. His posts frequently make reference to his religion and religious activities. While I personally disagree with him on those matters I have found I agree with him on many topical matters. Yet I have never once complained about his posts, nor would I. That is part of being a productive member of this online community.

However to say that this tartan and the many posts & threads about it are not about religion is like saying that a discussion of district tartans is not about geography. Regardless of the historical accuracy, tartans are now associated with a variety of meanings. To remove those meanings is to make the tartans which we all honor completely insignificant.

In the case of the tartan in question, Matt took great care in thread count and pattern to reference significant factors. If we ignore those factors, well the design might as well be that of Scrooge MacDuck, from Disney. Suppose I were to say that the Firefighters Memorial tartan were not about firefighting or memorializing. I would probably be stoned in the village square for being unpatriotic and insensitive, and rightfully so.