XMTS mentioned

[herminator]

in my favourite catholic blog:

http://markshea.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-tartan.html

[Jock Scot]

Hmmmm, interesting comments.

[Schiehallion]

I think it rather strange that all the work goes into a tartan to mark a single event which soon will be relegated to history .....and not one I would consider wearing because of all the controversy here in the UK

[BEEDEE]

Two threads on this subject have already been closed because members cannot keep religion or politics out of their discussion. See: Rule #5 - Discussions espousing one particular religious belief or political system over another or comparison of one belief or system to another will not be allowed.

This is nothing more than a tartan created to mark an event. Please keep remarks to discussion on the tartan itself and not the event.

Brian

[AFS1970]

People need to stop being so touchy about religion. Yes the tartan was created to commemorate an event, and undeniably Roman Catholic event. The Tartan is named for a Saint, it commemorates a Papal visit. Like it or not, agree or disagree, but the Pope (hence the word Papal) is Roman Catholic. There is no way to remove religion from the discussion unless we want to have something like this:

Hey everyone, Matt just created a tartan called [censored], in honor of the [censored] visit to Scotland. The tartan is called [censored] because the visit will occur on [censored] day. Matt was contacted by a [censored] organization to do this in honor of the [censored]. Matt said he was proud to be selected for this because he is a [censored].

So if you enjoy reading Pravda I guess that is the way to go. I make no secret of the fact that while I do not make the rules I do not agree with this one and think it is usually enforced in a far more heavy handed manner then all the other rules. I also am beginning to dislike the fact that long before any forum staff have a chance to read such thread, there are those among the Kilted Brethren that almost gleefully bring up this rule, but oddly enough only against one religion.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Well said, AFS 1970.

[herminator]

C´mon folks, it´s NOT about religion, it´s about a greatlooking tartan that Matt can be proud of.
We might have disagreements about the event, the pope, christianity, religion ... but here and now that is not what it´s about!

I am protestant but does that hinder me in admiring the work and thought that went into the design? No!
Does that mean I cannot like the tartan? No!
Should we not discuss anything where words of religious connotation might be mentioned?

Oh G---d!! Is this some kind of kindergarten?

I hope not!

Shalom
Hermann (who is not sure if he may write "shalom here any more)

P.S. I gave the information to Mark Shea because I thought it a good idea to have XMTS mentioned on a wellknown catholic blog - was that wrong?

[McClef]

AFS1970 and MOR:

This rule is NOT enforced more heavily than any other. All rules are enforced as necessary but it is the nature of things that some rules are breached more often than others.

Every time we, as Moderators, issue timely warnings in an attempt to prevent a thread like this and its predecessors from the destruction that some contributors seem bent upon consigning it to, it is not for our own pleasure or power but because we are charged with a responsibility for keeping the rules.

Do we have our own views and opinions? Of course we do, but when we cannot express them according to the rules - rules to which all members have to read and subscribe to, then we keep our silence.

Those rules have come about from long experience and have helped X Marks become a respected and trusted site in the kilting world.

And even outside it.

[AFS1970]

OK, I will grant you that enforcement is proportionate to infraction, however there are many who seem to scream breech from the mountain top when they think this one has been broken, thus alerting the forum staff, and will let any other infraction go away unnoticed. The forum staff obviously has to act on any complaint received.

I can think of one forum member that I am of a different religion from (I am sure there are many more) who I do not find offensive in the slightest. His posts frequently make reference to his religion and religious activities. While I personally disagree with him on those matters I have found I agree with him on many topical matters. Yet I have never once complained about his posts, nor would I. That is part of being a productive member of this online community.

However to say that this tartan and the many posts & threads about it are not about religion is like saying that a discussion of district tartans is not about geography. Regardless of the historical accuracy, tartans are now associated with a variety of meanings. To remove those meanings is to make the tartans which we all honor completely insignificant.

In the case of the tartan in question, Matt took great care in thread count and pattern to reference significant factors. If we ignore those factors, well the design might as well be that of Scrooge MacDuck, from Disney. Suppose I were to say that the Firefighters Memorial tartan were not about firefighting or memorializing. I would probably be stoned in the village square for being unpatriotic and insensitive, and rightfully so.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Rule #5 - Discussions espousing one particular religious belief or political system over another or comparison of one belief or system to another will not be allowed.

This is nothing more than a tartan created to mark an event. Please keep remarks to discussion on the tartan itself and not the event.

Whilst I agree with Brian's sentiments, I think that under Rule 5 it is quite possible to mention the event, in passing, without proselytizing on behalf of any one particular religious denomination.

The event, as I see it, is the official visit to Scotland by the Head of State of the Vatican -- a tiny country to be sure, but one that exchanges ambassadors with numerous other countries, including the United States. The State visit of Benedict XVI to Scotland is, in my opinion, no different than a State visit to Scotland by any other Head of State.

If the King of Saudi Arabia came to Scotland and was presented with a commemorative tartan, the event-- as well as the tartan-- would be worthy of respectful, and insightful comment.

I found Matt's use of representative thread count and colour combinations to be in the best possible traditions of meaningful design. Explaining how he conceived the design of the tartan had nothing to do with espousing the superiority of one religious denomination over another, and everything to do with explaining the representational meaning of the design itself.