Diluted tartan?

**Guinness>water** · 1st October 10, 01:43 PM

Hello,
I have been looking at a lot of different tartans and have about decided that the whole meaning if it has been watered down. I like the Bluebonnet (Texas state) tartan, the U.S. Army tartan and the American heritage tartan and could "technically" wear any of the above. I know I can wear any tartan I want but doesn’t that kind of kill the meaning of tartan? I just feel that tartan is a Scottish thing and wearing one other than your family's colors is disrespectful.? Anybody else think like this? I would never discourage anyone from doing as they wish, this is a personal idea.

**artificer** · 1st October 10, 01:51 PM

The discussion has certainly been had before.

The idea of the family or clan tartan is, in itself, a Victorian construct. Before that time you wore whatever your wife/gran/local weaving expert made.

Nowadays, tartans represent families, businesses, schools, events or nothing at all-but just because they look good. I say the more the merrier.

ith:

**lethearen** · 1st October 10, 01:57 PM

Uh-oh. You're likely to get a lot of very different, yet all very passionate answers to that can of worms

I prefer to wear my mum's family tartan; I have two kilts in it, as well as a flatcap and a tie, and plan to get another kilt and a waistcoat. It's very attractive, and it's meaningful to me. I do have a couple kilts in other tartans (universals), though. They all get worn...

**Paul Henry** · 1st October 10, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by artificer

The discussion has certainly been had before.

The idea of the family or clan tartan is, in itself, a Victorian construct. Before that time you wore whatever your wife/gran/local weaving expert made.

Nowadays, tartans represent families, businesses, schools, events or nothing at all-but just because they look good. I say the more the merrier.

ith:

Agreed wholeheartedly, Yes we have had this discussion many, many times before,and there are many points of view. But the most important thing is that you work out how or which tartans you want to wear, yourself.
Be confident and feel assured in wearing whatever you choose.

**Guinness>water** · 1st October 10, 02:26 PM

Artificer, I guess your right. Its not 1300/1400 anymore, just by wearing a kilt (no matter what tartan) we're keeping our heratige alive. Why have only one tartan, thats kinda boring.

**Whidbey78** · 1st October 10, 04:04 PM

What the heck... I'll throw in my $.02USD.

The "meaning" is not as great as some think. People wore whatever they wanted before the ban on highland dress, and after it was lifted there was a whole generation who hadn't worn a kilt, so it was essentially re-invented in the 18th century, with a lot of influence coming from Victorian fashion and military garb. Barb's book "The Art of Kiltmaking" has an informative, though brief, chapter on the history of tartans, kilts, and highland dress. Very illuminating! Many of the "old" and "ancient" tartans weren't even woven until the 20th century. But, people will defend an adopted symbol even if it really doesn't go very far back into their history. And as for wearing another's tartan "diluting" the meaning, let me ask this: If I wear a World Cup t-shirt, even though I couldn't give to shakes about soccer(football to the rest of the world) does it now mean less to or for the die-hard soccer fan?? I doubt it!

I don't believe at all that one needs to have a direct or indirect association with who or what the tartan represents. However, I do choose to limit myself to tartans I can claim a fairly close association with or truly universal fashion tartans(Tara, Oakleigh, Etc.). I have several clan and regional tartans that I am "entitled" to wear, several of the "fashion" tartans that I could claim(US Navy/Edsel, US Army, etc.), three state tartans, and others. Of course there are those that are viewed as "universal"(Black Watch, Royal Stewart, Etc.). The one exception is a Wallace kilt I got a good price on that was used and is my hiking, fishing, knockaround "who cares if I get a hole in it" kilt.

My reason is actually rooted in practicality, not nostalgia, tradition, or convention. See, even with my personal rules in place I am still left with a lot of choices, it keeps me from buying every good looking tartan I see(or spending too much time shopping for them), keeps the Kilt Police off my backside for wearing another family's tartan(not that I really care--it just saves both of us the hassle), and it's fun to have someone argue with me about what tartan I'm wearing since some of the "fashion" tartans bear a resemblance to clan tartans. My US Army kilt has been mistaken for Gordon and Gunn on multiple occasions, and I'm sure my incoming American Heritage and Oakliegh kilts will be mis-identified at least once.

Wear what you want! Someone might give you some guff at some point but it's not as if they have the authority to do anything. Some might take offense to wearing a certain tartan, but that's really their problem. The mills sell the fabric and people make it into kilts. That's all it really is. To say you can't wear tartan "X" because you're not from that clan, region, or whatever, is like saying you can't drive a Ford Crown Victoria unless you are a cop!

It's fashion man. Some will like what you do, some won't, and life is too short to worry about it. Just keep the pleats in the back and take out the basting stitches before you wear it and you're good to go!

**figheadair** · 1st October 10, 10:15 PM

Whidbey78 makes some very good points.

Personnally I'm not a fan of the plethora of new setts but what I find a real shame is that so many of the truly old, non-clan tartans languish in obscurity. They have a beauty in both colour and structure that many modern setts fail to achieve. Add to that the fact that we know more about them, and have the ability to recreate them, than at anytime since the early 1800s. Given the interest in recreating old sporran and kilt styles I don't fully understand why more people aren't interested in some of the older patterns. Have I missed something?

**Guinness>water** · 1st October 10, 10:36 PM

I could have worded my statement/question better. It wasnt directed at people so much as the makers of all these tartans. The city of Amarillo, TX. has a tartan for goodness sakes. It started as a Scottish thing but now everybody/everything has its own tartan. There is even a German heritage tartan(not to offend any German kilt wearers)! I wonder if its lost it meaning. I still caint see myself wearing anything but a Maccormick or Maclaine tartan.

**Whidbey78** · 2nd October 10, 12:25 AM

That's the point I was trying to make...Podunk USA has a tartan and so do areas of Scotland, Ireland, Wales...hell, Antarctica has a tartan and nobody lives there(well, not after the research is done). Luna(the moon) has a tartan! It hasn't lost anything...it has come to encompass more!! That's the beauty of it. It can and does go beyond the UK, even to space. The tartan reaches into the past and future...that's part of the charm. Heck, I want to see a Martian tartan!

If you feel the proliferation of tartans takes away from the meaning of your own clan tartan that's fine...we have your back!! We're all in this together!

**artificer** · 2nd October 10, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Whidbey78

That's the point I was trying to make...Podunk USA has a tartan and so do areas of Scotland, Ireland, Wales...hell, Antarctica has a tartan and nobody lives there(well, not after the research is done). Luna(the moon) has a tartan! It hasn't lost anything...it has come to encompass more!!...

***

well said!

ith: