Quote Originally Posted by O'Callaghan View Post
Moreover, the kilt is derived from the Irish cloak (brat), which was reportedly striped wool and most probably often tartan, as tartan remnants have been found that predate the influx of the Irish gaels into the highlands by thousands of years (I know that's already been posted). Yes, the picts were there first, but the kilt isn't derived from pictish clothing, and neither is pictish spoken there anymore.

So Irish kilts are old (enough for me) and Scots kilts are derived from Irish clothing, although not in the way the article says.
I have no idea where this idea comes from. A brat is just a cloak type blanket, and was known by many names and worn throughout Europe, it's not specifically Irish. In fact in The Life of Red Hugh O'Donnell we can read a description of a group of hired mercenaries from the Scottish Hebrides employed by O'Donnell in 1594, where use of a cloak marks them out as visually different from the Irish.....these were recognized among the Irish by the difference of their arms and clothing their habits and languages for their exterior dress was mottled cloaks to the calf of the leg with ties and fastenings. Their girdles were over the loins outside the cloaks

This sounds like a description of a large/great plaid type garment to me, and wearing one made the Scots look markedly different from the Irish to the author of the piece.

As for the influx of Irish Gaels into Scotland, leading to the founding of Dalradia, this seems to be taken as historical fact when in fact it comes from Geoffrey of Monmouth repeating legends which also include giants and King Arthur. A lot of archaeological and DNA research has been done by the Universities of Strathclyde and Dublin which shows evidence of trade and going back and forth over the Irish Sea, (as there was throughout all Europe at that time), but no influx or imposition of culture whatsoever. In fact, Peter Lawrie writes "There is almost no archaeological evidence to support the traditional view of migration from Ireland and some evidence to support the view that there was considerable influence in the opposite direction, from Scotland to Ireland. Some early genealogies were evidently re-written in the 10th century to bolster contemporary claimants to the Scottish throne. These practices continued in the 15th and 16th centuries when the mythically ancient origins of the Scots kingdom were extended back in time by Boece and Major to include the pharaohs of Egypt and Kings of Troy. Late medieval Highland clans similarly used myths of descent from ancient Irish kings to bolster their seniority".

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As for the Picts, there are many examples of stone carvings in my native North East of Scotland. Several show men wearing "brat" type cloaks and/or long tunic type garments. Publishers such as Osprey have used these images to extrapolate on what a Pict may have looked like. He wasn't wearing trousers.



In Volume 1/09 of History of Scotland, a Mr Donald Buchanan Robertson QC, of Edinburgh, has made available part of a report by the English spy, John Aston, on the Scots army on the eve of the Battle of Newburn, 1640.

It’s interesting in that it not only has what you’d expect to hear, but also references to what may be a proto kilt, and an emphasis on archers. I repeat it, unedited;

"Most guessed them (the Scots army) to be about 10 or 12,000 at the most, accounting the highlanders, whose fantastique habits caused much gazing by such as have not scene them heretofore. They were all or most part of them well timbred men, tall and active, apparelled in blew woollen wascotts and blew bonnets. A padre of bases of pled, and stockings of the same, and a padre of pumpes on their feete: a mantle of pled cast over the left shoulder, and under the right arm, a pocquett before for their knapsack, and a pair of durgs on either side the pocquett.

They are left to their own election for their weapons; some carry onely a sword and targe, others musquetts, and the greater part bow and arrows, with a quiver to hould about 6 shafts, made of the maine of a goat or colt, with the hair hanging on, and fastened by some belt of such like, soe it appears almost a taile to them.

These were about 1000, and had bagg-pipes (for the most part) for their warlick instruments. The Laird Buchanan was their leader. Their ensigns had strange devices and strange words, in a language unknown to mee, whether their own or not I know not".


What’s interesting to me is the use of the words “bases” in conjunction with “bases of pled”.

Bases were a type of male pleated skirt that seems to have been use in Italy in the 1400’s but the use of them spread throughout Europe as far north as Holland and France, and there are illustrative examples of them from the 1500’s in Britain, (including Scotland) and Ireland. Unfortunately they are sometimes reported as being kilts. I suppose they are, in a way, inasmuch as a kilt is a pleated skirt. There is nothing particularly “Celtic” about them, being an Italian import that was found to be useful when wearing armour.

There are a great many examples from England and continental Europe.

The use of the term here seems to maybe imply that the highlanders were not wearing only the Great Plaid in 1640, as we might have been led to expect by some reports, but a separate pleated garment. The reference to “pled” I can only assume to mean tartan, therefore the stockings, pleated skirt and shoulder plaids were all tartan.

In short, with so many variants and European influences, I can't see how anyone can say that Scots kilts are derived from Irish clothing.