To the Forum regarding the XMTSAS Saltire

[Mike_Oettle]

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.
I understand that Jamie wants to be less involved in X Marks, but I cannot see why the Saltire can’t continue its travels.
And whatever you gents want to say about its “around the world” travels, it has certainly not been around the world.
In fact, Zardoz’s remark about travelling outside Texas being international only underlines the insularity of the whole thing.
We need a symbol like the Saltire to emphasise the internationality of X Marks, and parking it permanently at Bicknell Grange is not going to do that (nor will keeping it at Jamie’s house).
Regards,
Mike

[CDNSushi]

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.
I understand that Jamie wants to be less involved in X Marks, but I cannot see why the Saltire can’t continue its travels.

Mike, the reason is, from what I can tell, that Jamie never intended for the Saltire to become communal or forum member property. It is, and always was his own, personal property, with which he has full rights to dispense or dispose of at his sole discretion -- something he has clearly chosen to do in a particular way.

Not that I agree, but let's think this through to its logical conclusion. Had the Saltire "succeeded" in visiting all the world's continents, then what? Jamie would still have the option of EITHER displaying the airship and logbook in his own home, or donating it to Hamish or Steve or someone in order for other members to see and visit.

I have some ideas that I would also like to contribute to the future of a similar project, but I think a new thread might be in order for that.

EDIT: Done. http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...estions-63951/

[Downunder Kilt]

Mike, the reason is, from what I can tell, that Jamie never intended for the Saltire to become communal or forum member property. It is, and always was his own, personal property, with which he has full rights to dispense or dispose of at his sole discretion -- something he has clearly chosen to do in a particular way.

I think jamies intentions are quite clear in a "Flight of the Saltire" posting by Jamie on 28 April 2009

"It is always nice to have her return home, but the Saltire and the goodwill she spreads belong to all the good members of X Marks the Scot.com.

May she continue to travel far in friendship!

Cheers

Jamie"

Clearly Jamie's intent at that time was that the Saltire belonged to all members and that its home port was where he lived. Just as all vessels (air, sea, land) have a home port

[macwilkin]

I think jamies intentions are quite clear in a "Flight of the Saltire" posting by Jamie on 28 April 2009

"It is always nice to have her return home, but the Saltire and the goodwill she spreads belong to all the good members of X Marks the Scot.com.

May she continue to travel far in friendship!

Cheers

Jamie"

Clearly Jamie's intent at that time was that the Saltire belonged to all members and that its home port was where he lived. Just as all vessels (air, sea, land) have a home port

Perhaps we should late Jamie himself answer this, rather than trying to answer for him.

I appreciate the fact that you and Mike would like to see the Saltire visit Australia & South Africa. I personally liked the suggestion of a Saltire flag to replace the wee airship, or maybe even a commemorative quaich, inscribed with a sentiment and so forth, that could symbolize the tradition of offering a wee dram to a guest at your threshold when entering your house.

Some mentioned that flags become dirty and frayed -- remember that the most treasured flags, regimental standards, are dirty and frayed, given their long and storied records in combat -- regimental colours are frequently retired to chapels, museums, etc. I rather like the idea of an XMarks colour being retired somewhere after its "service" in friendship.

Respectfully,

Todd

[artificer]

Some mentioned that flags become dirty and frayed -- remember that the most treasured flags, regimental standards, are dirty and frayed, given their long and storied records in combat -- regimental colours are frequently retired to chapels, museums, etc. I rather like the idea of an XMarks colour being retired somewhere after its "service" in friendship.

Respectfully,

Todd

Respectfully,

Todd

Aye, I'm that "some" , more to the point, it's an awkward thing to handle a flag on your lonesome, especially when it's not on a pole.

The Saltire already represents something... Scotland. We'd just be appropriating it. To me, it just smacks of 'wrong'. We don't represent all of Scotland (they don't even wear the kilt unless it's a wedding or big event).
Putting a flag in 'compromising' poses smacks of impropriety to me (unless it's all our, and then we can do whatever the h@ll we want with it).

I think we need a new symbol. Don't ask me what that should be, just yet.
just my $0.02
ith:

[macwilkin]

Aye, I'm that "some" , more to the point, it's an awkward thing to handle a flag on your lonesome, especially when it's not on a pole.

The Saltire already represents something... Scotland. We'd just be appropriating it. To me, it just smacks of 'wrong'. We don't represent all of Scotland (they don't even wear the kilt unless it's a wedding or big event).
Putting a flag in 'compromising' poses smacks of impropriety to me (unless it's all our, and then we can do whatever the h@ll we want with it).

I think we need a new symbol. Don't ask me what that should be, just yet.
just my $0.02
ith:

I respectfully disagree. I believe our own English Bloke has posted photos of an Aussie mate of his that travels with a small Australian Army flag around the world, and seems to have no issue with handling a flag on his lonesome.

And the flag itself doesn't necessarily have to be a Saltire -- why not a small banner with the Xmarks crest badge? A firm such as Caberdancer, which makes personal heraldic banners for armigers could no doubt come up with something nice and compact. No issue with "compromising" photos then.

We already have a symbol in the Xmarks badge. No need to reinvent the wheel.

T.

[Zardoz]

I like the commemorative quaich idea Todd, it's got the right symbolism and is portable. It could be accompanied by a 'guest book' folks could sign etc..

[davedove]

And the flag itself doesn't necessarily have to be a Saltire -- why not a small banner with the Xmarks crest badge? A firm such as Caberdancer, which makes personal heraldic banners for armigers could no doubt come up with something nice and compact. No issue with "compromising" photos then.

We already have a symbol in the Xmarks badge. No need to reinvent the wheel.

T.

I thought of this as well, Todd. But how about a clan banner of the XMTS tartan with the badge embroidered on it? It certainly wouldn't have to be as large as a normal clan banner, but it would certainly represent the membership.

[azwildcat96]

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.

I actually resisted posting the night that I first read the OP, as I was pretty upset. My post was toned-down, and self-edited for language, as compared to what I was really feeling.

Fact is, that this appears to be a slap in the face of every X-Marks member that still calls this forum "home". I didn't host the Saltire, nor did I want to, but I did enjoy reading the posts, and seeing the photos associated with it.

This is why I suggested that the forum owner, or moderators, or other craftsman here create a new version to start new adventures and journeys.

[macwilkin]

I actually resisted posting the night that I first read the OP, as I was pretty upset. My post was toned-down, and self-edited for language, as compared to what I was really feeling.

Fact is, that this appears to be a slap in the face of every X-Marks member that still calls this forum "home". I didn't host the Saltire, nor did I want to, but I did enjoy reading the posts, and seeing the photos associated with it.

This is why I suggested that the forum owner, or moderators, or other craftsman here create a new version to start new adventures and journeys.

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.