What should we have to accept when buying a custom made kilt?

[rtc872]

It has become increasingly clear to me that the picture is unacceptable regardless of origin. I understand this kilt may not be top of the line but it shouldn't be rubbish either.

To add my experience I had a kilt made that was a perfect kilt but I really hadn't measured myself properly. It came to light with a few fixes to the kilt it would be perfect for my dad but ultimately the maker was more than willing to take the time to adjust that kilt at no extra cost and make me another.

I agree that the Internet despite it's dangers should not make sloppy work the acceptable or the norm

[artificer]

I'm aware of the original situation, and that there was certainly a serious set of errors that are now on their way to being corrected.

That said, I think a product like this should never leave the maker's table. I have two 'stock' kilts (I happen to be a standard size/shape) that both fit and hang WORLDS better than the one pictured.

[Jock Scot]

Hi Jock, you're correct to a point....proximity to the kilt maker, for a good fitting, is most desirable. The thread does NOT show one of an improper fit, it shows one of an improper build/construction.

Many Xmembers have had kilts made without a fitting, but still receive a quality product. I have two wonderfully made kilts, one from a well known US kilt maker, and I never had a fitting, but still ended up with a wonderful product.

Just my .02 cents.

Absolutely, I could not agree with you more! The fit, the quality of work etc are all parts of the end product and when all said and done some hard earned cash is going to change hands at the end.

It would be very wrong to mention names, but it is to the great credit of the skilled kilt makers who do make kilts from a distance who have extremely happy and satisfied customers and all credit should be given to them.

[rtc872]

I wish I was stock like artificer. I honest to god have a large posterior. That is what I failed with my kilt. I measured my bum but my thighs were also larger than expected so I had a kick that would make any sportsman proud.

To be honest if a craftsman respects their work they will not let a fail on the customers part slide. That should be seen as a failure on their part to explain correctly what they need.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

You are quite correct in that customers come in all shapes and sizes (and dispositions). Most of our customers at the museum receive their items (kilts or otherwise) and we never hear any complaint; or perhaps we receive a quick email saying, "I got my ______ today and love it, thanks!" Occasionally a customer will send a pic of them wearing their new kilt and that's always nice, but certainly not expected.

When there is a problem with a product we always operate under the assumption that the customer is rational and reasonable, their concern is legitimate, and we are going to try our best to remedy whatever the problem might be. As you said, sometimes there are customers that have unreasonable complaints, and while we still want to keep them happy, sometimes that's not possible. (Oh, the stories I could write... and I'm sure anyone who has worked retail will have similar stories).

But I do have to say that the average customer complaint we have to deal with has nothing to do with the kilts we sell; generally it will be about a smaller, less expensive item, and it will be easily remedied. Over the years we have managed to whittle down our customer service problems with kilts to almost zero. We have done this by making sure that the kilts that pass through our gift shop are of constant and high quality. Sometimes this means that we no longer have kilts made by some companies that we used to do business with (incidentally, one of those companies is the same that is responsible for the kilt in the original post).

Let me give some background to explain my perspective before I answer the questions. Speaking for myself, as an individual kiltmaker, I obviously have direct and total quality control over the kilts which I make.

At the STM gift shop, we sell not only kilts which I make, but we sell kilts made in Scotland and imported to the US. Those kilts are delivered first to us; we inspect them and ensure they are as ordered and consistent with the quality we expect, and then package them for delivery to our customers.

Quite a few of our customers come into the museum's shop in person for measurement (or we are able to measure them at a Highland Games). Most, however, phone in or email their measurements.

The few problems we have with kilts are typically due to the customer who has phoned in his measurements and not followed our instructions.

All that being said, here's how I would answer your questions.

Supposing I ordered my next kilt from you,

1) How likely is it that you should deliver me a kilt looking like that?

2) If likely, do you think it to be within your tolerances, i.e. something with which I should have to live?

3) If not within your own tolerances, should you deliver me a new kilt without charge or should you pay me all my money back?

1) Not likely at all! From the pic, it looks mainly like it is a problem with how the pleats were pressed. I've never seen a kilt come through our shop that looked this way.

2) If someone did send me a picture like that of a kilt they recently received from us, I'd have them send it back. If the solution was something I could fix myself, I'd do it. If it required a more major solution, I'd have the kilt remade. Either way, I'd make sure the client got a kilt worth what they paid for it.

3) My preference would be to do what had to be done to get a decent kilt into the customer's hands. Our normal refund policy does not apply to custom made goods (which includes kilts). However, if we did somehow manage to deliver a kilt to a client which was so far below our normal quality standards, I'd be inclined to make an exception to our normal policy if the customer preferred a refund over a new kilt.

[CMcG]

My question to you as a consumer, a kilt buyer:

Should a custom made kilt looking like this be acceptable to you?

I think the question is a bit more complicated than that. Let me contextualize my response a little.

This is the third attempt of Tartanweb to provide an acceptable quality product to denmcdough. It is certainly better than the first two attempts but by no means perfect. I didn't actually notice the saggy pleats when I first saw the pictures on another thread... that is to say, it's bad but not terrible.

This is apparently the best that this company can do and they threw in a free sgian dubh to mollify the customer. In this situation, I might be inclined to accept it -- despite it being flawed -- if the rest of the kilt is well and made and fitting.

A second consideration, however, is price. If the kilt was purchased at a deep discount then I might be more willing to tolerate such imperfections. I might also be willing to accept this kilt if the company had given me some sort of compensatory rebate after the fact, to make up for their errors.

If I paid full price, then I'd definitely expect more. And I'd be right PO'ed!

[Jordan]

First up, Rocky that first post of yours was fantastic, if anyone ever has any doubts about ordering from you that should ease their mind.

Having see the original thread about this kilt the second one was a major improvement. My first tank I bought I was measured for in person unfortunately i went to a large (probaly well known over here) retail chain, where i was measured by someone who took three measurements tried telling me I was wrong and what i really wanted and I ended up with a kilt which didn't fit right, was about an inch too long and quite badly made (I later found out they're all factory made en mass!) of course being my first kilt i didn't know what to look for at the time.

It was only when I went down to Edinburgh for my second tank, after a few cheap kilts and a lot of reading on here. I was measured by Howie from TFCK which was a lot different than my first time and when i got the kilt and compared them the difference was really noticeable both in the fit and quality. It was the same when i ordered from Lady Chrystel she told me which measurements she wanted and again I ended up with a fantastic kilt.

If a kilt maker is willing to work with the customer you will get a good quality product, if not if all they want is your cash then you get expensive tat, wether its over the Internet or not.

I would always recommend getting measured for your kilt by someone who knows what they're doing or are following detailed instructions from the maker not some third party person who doesn't want to be there and doesn't really care.

Just my opinions however

Jordan.

[artificer]

This is the third attempt of Tartanweb to provide an acceptable quality product to denmcdough. It is certainly better than the first two attempts but by no means perfect. I didn't actually notice the saggy pleats when I first saw the pictures on another thread... that is to say, it's bad but not terrible.

Waitaminute! I thought this was a shot of the 2nd attempt

If this is the third go, something has GOT be wrong. Off measurements? I've never seen a custom fitted kilt hang like that.

Edit: I went back and searched... it is the third attempt. Did it straighten out after a hang and a steam? Because this pic was shot 'right out of the box'. It would be unfortunate to base this thread entirely on the kilt being 'off-kilter' from shipping.

[denmcdough]

Yes, unfortunately, this IS the third attempt.

Upon contacting Scott at TW, he was going to give a hand stitched kilt by one of Scotland's finest, but reconsidered and will, now, refund my money and postage. I was willing to give it a 4th go if I was guaranteed a good kilt. Scott did not want to do that, so I await his refund. I do appreciate him, at least, going that far. He, also, said I can have a 10% discount on future items. Well, I'd definitely take him up on that offer for accessories, but not a kilt!

Someone sent a PM, made a comment that the problem was not the kilt!! So, the implied message is that it's me! Well, I have a hand stitched kilt from Wally Catanach that is awesome. I have an off the rack kilt from Marchbare and it's awesome. I have cheap Pakistani kilts that hang nicely, so the problem is me!!!!???? I don't think so! Hmm, something's a miss here!

Oh, a good kilt should hang properly right out of the box, sans the minor wrinkles. I did, in a good effort, steam it anyway. It did not help!

[artificer]

Yes, unfortunately, this IS the third attempt.

Upon contacting Scott at TW, he was going to give a hand stitched kilt by one of Scotland's finest, but reconsidered and will, now, refund my money and postage. I was willing to give it a 4th go if I was guaranteed a good kilt. Scott did not want to do that, so I await his refund. I do appreciate him, at least, going that far. He, also, said I can have a 10% discount on future items. Well, I'd definitely take him up on that offer for accessories, but not a kilt!

Steve Ashton sent a PM, made a comment that the problem was not the kilt!! So, the implied message is that it's me! Well, I have a hand stitched kilt from Wally Catanach that is awesome. I have an off the rack kilt from Marchbare and it's awesome. I have cheap Pakistani kilts that hang nicely, so the problem is me!!!!???? I don't think so! Hmm, something's a miss here!

Oh, a good kilt should hang properly right out of the box, sands the minor wrinkles. I did, in a good effort, steam it anyway. It did not help!

Ouch! At this point you might just be better off with your money back and a different kilt maker anyway.

I'd be curious to know what Steve's thoughts were on why you were the problem. When I first looked at it I thought there might be a measurement off on the hips/rump that might make it hang oddly. I'm not saying that's what it is (I'm no kilt-maker), but that's the impression I got from the pic.

That said, I'm sure you were re-measured at each attempt, so that can't be it.


As for it hanging properly right out of the box... I had one kilt come perfectly... it looked like it had never been rolled and mailed. The other looked as if every postal worker between Scotland had twisted, sat-upon, and thrown the package down the stairs

It hung a bit like yours right when I opened it (I hadn't yet tried it on), but immediately flattened out once it hit a steamy shower.