Mixing tartans - yes or no?

[Jock Scot]

In honest ignorance: What's the issue with Campbell of Argyle? I'm not familiar with that concern. Somebody please un-ignorant me.

Where do I start! In a nutshell, the Campbells had a happy knack(from their point of view) of usually ending up on the winning side, the Crown usually and were not averse in flaunting their successes. They were rather more adept at using their brains rather than a sword and basically everyone else was jealous of the fact! The Campbells were wrongly blamed for the orchestration of the massacre at Glencoe and on it goes. As with all the clans in those days, matters had the unhappy knack of being ruthlessly dealt with and whilst the Campbells did not often have blood on their hands, they were often responsible and for whose benifit?-----their own.

[Biathlonman]

Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan. We should not get into clan v. clan history here - all is (mostly) forgiven and the subject is best dealt with in another forum.

Campbell of Argyll is not on a list authorized by a previous chief, by the way. It is like a Black Watch with white and yellow overstripes - or a Gordon with the addition of white to the yellow. Campbell is like a Black Watch in lighter hues. Was worn by the A&S until several years ago until they switched to the darker version worn in today's RRofS.

[xman]

Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan.

While not a style guru I can confess that I have seen EXTREMELY different hose worn beneath the kilt formally. I like to imagine inherited items worn to honour an ancestor rather than match the kilt. I recently recommended a little emphatically to my brother that he wear National Scott hose beneath his Clanranald kilt when he gets married this year. They're the same colours so how 'different' they are is for up for discussion. Tragically he opted for white citing, "It's what I'm used to".

The tartan tie seems to me a little ... whimsical? That gets confused when worn with a tartan kilt.

[AKScott]

Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan.

I have seen the general idea of this question a few times now in various threads. The general consistent answer from those in Scotland who are up to date on this sort of thing is you may wear (if the occasion justifies) as many different tartans of the same clan as you can fit into one outfit.

The rub is mixing tartans of different clans, or badges and baubles and so forth.

I recall once reading that if you choose McOnion in honor of Unlce Mike, you should wear McOnion only and not slip in something from Clan McLettuce in rememberance of dear Aunt Alice.

[davidlpope]

Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan.

When you say "hose in another of the same clan's tartan", do you mean Argyll hose? If so, then I think the Argyll hose should be in the same colors as your kilt. That being said, most tartans are composed of multiple colors and there is considerable variation when designing a pair of custom Argyll hose, so it's really more of a style question (does it look right?) than a propriety question....

If you're looking to have one pair of hose to wear with several kilts, why not go for a nice two color dice- red and green, red and white, or red and black. Come to think of it, I have a pair of red/black that I need to sell...

[CMcG]

Too Much is Not Enough <snip>

...and there are times and places when you want every square inch you can drape or pin to your body. As somebody said nearby not too long ago, sometimes you have to Go Big or Go Home.

The trick, like so many other tricks, is to know when to do which... But if you aren't sure, you're probably better off with less.

At this point, I don't know when to go with maximum tartan but perhaps you can shed some light on this MacLowlife? This is an idea that I've been working on for the last while...

p.s. I hope you received my reply to your P.M. awhile back?

When you say "hose in another of the same clan's tartan", do you mean Argyll hose? If so, then I think the Argyll hose should be in the same colors as your kilt. That being said, most tartans are composed of multiple colors and there is considerable variation when designing a pair of custom Argyll hose, so it's really more of a style question (does it look right?) than a propriety question....

If you're looking to have one pair of hose to wear with several kilts, why not go for a nice two color dice<snip>

davidlpope's suggestion to match Argyle or diced hose to one's kilt is spot on. Am I wrong in thinking that actual tartan hose are fairly rare?

[Cygnus]

...
davidlpope's suggestion to match Argyle or diced hose to one's kilt is spot on. Am I wrong in thinking that actual tartan hose are fairly rare?

I think he was spot on about the Argyll hose (and I think he only mentioned Argyll hose as far as matching is concerned). As davidlpope implied, I think one has a bit more leeway with diced hose. I've seen the Black Watch tartan worn with red and white diced hose to good effect, and red and white don't match the Black Watch tartan at all.

I'd imagine part of the reason actual tartan hose are so rare is that they'd either have to be made from the same tartan as the kilt in the same way as a historic type of hose called cadadh, or be of a simple enough sett to be woven like modern hose.

I've actually been trying to find somebody that could replicate the actual set of my tartan in a pair of hose (the Macqueen tartan seems simple enough...), but I haven't had much luck yet. We'll see how it goes!

[MacLowlife]

When to wear it all?

1) Any really big investiture ceremony, coronation, etc.
2) a formal portrait (Charles Dance in WHITE MISCHIEF)
3) a Zoolander inspired tartan walk-off.


A bridegroom or father of the bride might as well pile it on- remember those pics of the McGregor and his bride?

I think, as we get older, some of us channel our competitive drives into the way we dress. Sometimes, we think to ourselves as we survey the dog's breakfast of options laid out by our valets, "Will there be people there who understand elegant simplicity, as embodied by a well tailored Regulation, or are these the kind of people who need to be hit over the head with a little red velvet?

_ . _


I know there are traditional arguments that will excuse any mashup of color so long as it can be blamed on the tartans all having the same clan designation (no matter how spurious the authority for that designation) while condemning some aestheticallly pleasing match because of a nineteenth century clerical whim. All i can say is that color knows no clan.

The generic tartan/argyle hose like National Scot would appear to have this principle in mind. If your tartan is red, blue, and green, for example, with three narrow white stripes, you may be able to find someone who will run you up a pair of hose with that tricky white triple raker, for a few hundred pounds, or you can buy a pair of hose that include the colors, like the National Scot. Technically speaking, they do not "match" and they are not Your tartan, but they look just fine- in fact, they look GOOD.

If you start browsing through tartan swatches, it is pretty easy to find several tartans using the same few colors, only spaced differently. Sometimes the differences are easy to spot- Royal Stewart and MacLeod of Harris, for example. Somebody else can list the trickier and more easily confused ones. I have no idea whether fighting men ever relied on their ability to distinguish these subtleties or stood around on the battlefield counting stripes. I would rather not.

As more and more people design and register tartans from the same finite palette of colors, there will be more and more complicated combinations.

In an ideal world, we would all wear one tartan, reflecting Universal Brotherhood, or we could choose to wear any tartan, reflecting our freedom. But in THIS world, the all wise and all seeing Kilt Police look into our closetsw and into our hearts and make sure that the Sobieski Stuarts didn't work all of those hours translating and transcribing for nothing. AREN'T YOU GLAD?

[OC Richard]

Just to bring us back to my original question - what do the style guys think of the idea of kilt in one my clan's tartan and hose in another of the same clan's tartan.

To take a long look at things, going back to the earliest Highland Dress we have clear images of, in the late 17th century and early 18th century, the hose never matched the kilt. Hose were not knit, but cut out of woven fabric yardage and sewn up. The tartan used for hose was a thicker stuff than that used for kilts and tended to be woven in simpler patterns, often using red and white.








These traditional red and white hose were adopted by all the Highland regiments raised in the 18th century are are still worn by the military today:



So when you see nonmatching diced or tartan hose worn in modern times, it's harkening back to the earliest Highland Dress we have good images of.



Knitted hose made to mimick the tartan of the kilt as closely as possible didn't get popular until the mid 19th century. You see a load of those kind of hose in The Highlanders of Scotland (1860s).

Not in hose, but in plaids, there's an entire pipe band that wears mismatched tartans, though it's subtle, two different MacDonald red tartans (the only difference being the presence or absence of a central black line). I really like that, as it's very much in keeping with 18th century Highland Dress. It's the Isle of Skye Pipe Band and here they are:



(I'm talking about the pipers. As you can see the DM is wearing a Cameron of Erracht kilt. I think that guy was a QOH DM but I'm not sure, and he may be wearing his ex-army kilt.)

The tartan of the plaids was copied from the painting above, the jacket worn by the boy holding the golf club.

[Biathlonman]

Many thanks for pulling these images together - you've done some great digging on all our behalf. Have to say the photo of our friend with tartan waistcoat, drink in hand and cigarette in the other is priceless - talk about style! Would that we could all carry that off with such obvious panache.

It may be some time before I wear my formal stuff with the kilt again, but I think red and white diced hose get the final nod. The discussion this all provoked was helpful to some I hope.