Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Kilt isn't 'just clothes'.

[kiltedwolfman]

The comment of another person "playing at being a Scot" when wearing the kilt in Scotland makes me wonder if the next time I encounter a Scot here in Canada, especially if they be from the Highlands, wearing trousers and common Canadian ( or North American) attire I should say to them " It looks like another Scot playing at being Canadian!"

When I have visited Scotland I have worn the Kilt and in doing so have gotten into many a conversation with the locals about why it isn't worn often in Scotalnd anymore. Strangely though the answers always seem to be unknown by them. It falls back to the old "This is just the way we do it" cliche. Now admittedly many have stated that they wished the Kilt would be worn more, but always with the disclaimer that they didn't want to be the ones to attempt to bring it back into vogue.

Perhaps it is we rebelious pioneers that are doing the greater service to the Kilt by bringing it back into the fold as regular everyday dress and not holding high on the pillar of special occasionalism and cultural captivity.

[Brian K]

I have to chime in to agree with Tobus, Matt and others who have spoken here for us Yanks. What makes us "special" is our "mongrelization," for lack of a better word. As a nation we have been created from people who traveled here from all over the world and who mixed freely for the last 400 years or so. After all that time the closest thing to an American national "costume" is t-shirt, jeans and ball cap. While I do wear these things (sometimes all at once ), I would have to say it is not distinctively American - whether you mean the United States or all of the Western Hemisphere.

Matt mentioned that many Americans with Scots ancestors wear the kilt because they remember older relatives who wore it or because they've heard of great-granddad who wore it. Many don't even have that connection.

I, for example, don't know when my Scottish forbears crossed the pond. My mother has Scottish and French ancestors. Her mother was an Anderson but, other than knowing her paternal line originated in Scotland we don't know much. Her father was a McConnell and it seems that his ancestors came from Scotland through Ireland (his earliest documented ancestor was born in Ireland in 1721 and died in Virginia in 1801) but everything I can find indicates the Irish McConnells originated in Scotland. On my father's side I am descended , through his mother, from William Brewster of the Pilgrims and Claude Robillard who migrated from France to the Montreal area in the 1640's, and, on his father's side from an Englishman named Kilham (we spell our name Killam now) who moved to Plymouth Colony in 1626 - his ancestors have been traced back as far as 1530.

The forgoing is mainly to show that I come from fairly old family (not that it really matters now), but when my ancestors came to this continent 3 and 4 hundred years ago the countries of Europe were already old - ancient even. We are parvenus on the world scene and due to our remarkably mixed origins we have yet to develop a culture, including dress, that is entirely and uniquely American. There are a lot of us that are Scottish (or at least Scots-Irish) and for many of us (including me) our links to the old country are stretched pretty thin. For those of us who would like to express our pride in our ancestors the only ones who have a distinctive national garb that is both traditional and contemporary are the Scots and we cling to that even if the connection is a bit tenuous. My more clearly documented ancestors are English and French but in their current styles dress the French and English hardly dress much differently than the average North American.

Of course, another reason many Americans want to wear a kilt is because it is comfortable (or so I have heard) and it looks simply splendid! In a country as young as ours there are probably no better reasons. Here we pretty much dress as we please, but I would hope that anyone wearing the kilt would do so with at least some respect to the traditions and sensibilities of our Scottish forbears and friends.

Do I agree with Jock that it would be great if there were more U.S. based tartans we could conveniently wear? Certainly, but, as the kiltmakers here have averred, not everyone can afford to wear garments made from custom woven cloth. Until such tartans are more commonly and easily available we will be wearing existing tartans. We do not wish to offend anyone, Jock, but if there is one value we in the United States share - whether liberal or conservative or in between - it is a passion for personal freedom in our personal habits and expression of self - including choice of clothing.

Regards,

Brian

[Jock Scot]

-------------

-----However we all have a past and quite rightly some of us wish celebrate our ancestors and their achievements, but the way it is done outwith Scotland is not generally understood by the Scots; it appears to be all rather intense and rather "over the top" to us and it is this, I think, that we find difficult to comprehend.As we see it, why dress up as a Scot---play being a Scot---when you are not?

Alright , here then is the problem, the kilted people outwith Scotland do not understand that the Scots(we have enough stories here to illustrate the point now I think)do not understand. AND the Scots do not understand that kilted people from outwith Scotland(that is plainly obvious from the posts)are generally not playing at being a Scot-----even if they are not a Scot .

Well alright that is a major generalisation, but it does direct us to a problem of a major divergence of opinion. In the great scheme of things I suppose it is not earth shatteringly important.However it is important to individuals from both points of view, and it really appears to be a problem with/for visitors who come to Scotland unaware that there is a problem. So what to do?

We on this website are lucky in that we are able to listen and learn, I do and we all do one way or another and even if we might not like what we hear we cannot say, "we did not know". Realistically though,most of the world are unaware of this website.

Whilst I can't say that I am surprised to hear EB's, Steve's and other's stories, I am, as a Scot, frankly appalled at some of my countryman's out and out bad manners. In passing, I wonder what part of Scotland these so called "experts" came from------I have my suspicions!

Is there not some way to reach visiting kilt wearers to Scotland AND the Scots themselves so there is some sort of understanding of each other's point of view.It is never going to reach everyone but-----

Maybe some literature explaining this at the tourist boards,maybe you shop owners in and outwith Scotland could help, maybe Scottish hotels and B&B's need to be brought in on this. I don't know the answer, but sure as eggs are eggs this situation is not helping the Scottish tourist industry and it is not helping the tourist enjoy their stay as much as they might.

[CMcG]

Alright , here then is the problem, the kilted people outwith Scotland do not understand that the Scots(we have enough stories here to illustrate the point now I think)do not understand. AND the Scots do not understand that kilted people from outwith Scotland(that is plainly obvious from the posts)are generally not playing at being a Scot-----even if they are not a Scot .

Well alright that is a major generalisation, but it does direct us to a problem of a major divergence of opinion. In the great scheme of things I suppose it is not earth shatteringly important.However it is important to individuals from both points of view, and it really appears to be a problem with/for visitors who come to Scotland unaware that there is a problem. So what to do?

<snip>

If I've learned anything from this thread, it is that I would risk scorn if I wore my kilt in the UK without some sort of recognized occasion.

As far as what to do about promoting a greater cultural understanding between Scots, the Scottish diaspora, and even non-Scot kilt wearers, I know not. Xmarks certainly is an important resource though. Every discussion we have is searchable by Google et al., so we have passively addressed this issue to the World Wide Web. That's how I found Xmarks in the first place and I hope that tourists planning on kilting in the UK will think to research before they go...

[Howard Clark]

I have not read through the whole thread. I have not (yet) been to Scotland. I did visit London last spring to teach a class on making swords and attend a "forge-in" at the shop of my friend Owen Bush in Welling.

I did wear the kilt to and from the UK whilst traveling, and went to London in it to have a day at museums, and an evening of eating and visiting pubs. I was treated just fine all through the experience, and any comments received were positive, though I was in fact the only person I saw in a kilt the whole time.

I just returned to Iowa from a week in Maine yesterday, and traveled both ways in the air travel system wearing a four yard box pleated kilt made from MoD surplus tartan (Leslie/KOSB tartan). I wear a tweed jacket and a brown TCS sporran, brown belt with a Japanese sword tsuba as a buckle which I made.

I find the airline personnel and TSA to be more polite, more friendly, more talkative, and the general experience to be better when I travel by air in a kilt. Perhaps it has to do with traveling at the earliest possible times, and earlier in the day people are just naturally less unhappy ? I do not know.

I do know that one gets to choose how to respond to anything that is said or done. Every day we get to choose how we react to what life throws at us. If you carry a smile and a sense of humor, and even perhaps a bit of kindness and understanding along, life can be less troublesome sometimes.

[Jock Scot]

If I've learned anything from this thread, it is that I would risk scorn if I wore my kilt in the UK without some sort of recognized occasion.

Do you know I think we are in danger of over reacting to all this. Yes there are some Scots(mainly) that are prepared to voice an opinion directly to a kilt wearer and as Steve has described there are others who smirk, but in truth we do need to keep all this in proportion.

If we plough through all those wonderful "kilted in Scotland" picture threads on this website there are very few reports(any?) of negative reactions to the kilt, by irate Scots.

In spite of it all, the Scots are a very polite and respectful nation, and whilst they almost certainly will not understand the need for visitors to be kilted in Scotland, there are many of us who enjoy seeing the kilt being properly worn, whoever is wearing it.

I have just remembered that one of our members had a bit of a tiff with some petty golf official on a Scots golf course, but I think that was more to do with golf rules than anything too anti kilt.

[kilted scholar]

On the matter of cars I see Honda as Japanese, Jeep as American, Porche as German, Bentley as British. -- Jock Scot

Jock is of course absolutely correct here and it follows that the Scottish kilt is Scottish.
However, I have yet to hear it argued that Hondas should only be driven by the Japanese or that if a foreigner were to drive one in Japan he would be playing at being Japanese, or - mutatis mutandis - that a foreigner driving a Bentley in the UK was playing at being British.

The thread has demonstrated that many Highlanders continued their customs, and in many cases the clothes they wore, to the areas of the world to which they were forced to move. Are they any less Scots? Is there any social or cultural gaffe in their continuing to do so?

I lived in the USA for nearly thirty years, am married to an American, and our children are dual nationals. I agree 150% with the Americans who have posted. One cannot visit the highlands of North Carolina, for example, and fail to see the impact of Scottish - and especially Highland - culture on the region. Similar factors are no doubt at work in Canada, New Zealand and elsewhere.

The recent expansion of globalization is more than economic. It was a common attitude half a century ago to think of each nation state as a virtually heremtically sealed unit. Such a view is untenable today. I am Scots on the male side, Anglo-French on the mothers side, my wife is American (Anglo-German), my children British and US citizens, my son in law is from South America - what is my grandson? Nor is birthplace an adequate guide - it depends on the accident of where one's mother happened to be at a particular time.

There is no doubt that Jock is correct and the relatives of our new friend from Australia are correct about the frequency with which the kilt is worn in Scotland; I can corroborate that myself. However, generalizations like that can also be misleading. See the article from the Independent cited in another thread - The Secret History of the Kilt - where the wearer, British Ambassador to a range of countries wears his kilt at every opportunity. Note also the Tartan army - Cardiff was recently full of kilts for the Rubgy international in which Scotland were playing.

I suspect that the rude comments received by Steve and EB were as much related to nationalism as anything else. Other posters have covered this well. It seems to me that, should persons - of Scots descent or not - from outside Scotland cease buying and wearing kilts, kiltmaking in Scotland would effectively cease, and should they not visit Scotland the national economy would take a nosedive.

Do not lose heart, my friends.

[macwilkin]

On the matter of cars I see Honda as Japanese, Jeep as American, Porche as German, Bentley as British. -- Jock Scot

Jock is of course absolutely correct here and it follows that the Scottish kilt is Scottish.
However, I have yet to hear it argued that Hondas should only be driven by the Japanese or that if a foreigner were to drive one in Japan he would be playing at being Japanese, or - mutatis mutandis - that a foreigner driving a Bentley in the UK was playing at being British.

The thread has demonstrated that many Highlanders continued their customs, and in many cases the clothes they wore, to the areas of the world to which they were forced to move. Are they any less Scots? Is there any social or cultural gaffe in their continuing to do so?

I lived in the USA for nearly thirty years, am married to an American, and our children are dual nationals. I agree 150% with the Americans who have posted. One cannot visit the highlands of North Carolina, for example, and fail to see the impact of Scottish - and especially Highland - culture on the region. Similar factors are no doubt at work in Canada, New Zealand and elsewhere.

The recent expansion of globalization is more than economic. It was a common attitude half a century ago to think of each nation state as a virtually heremtically sealed unit. Such a view is untenable today. I am Scots on the male side, Anglo-French on the mothers side, my wife is American (Anglo-German), my children British and US citizens, my son in law is from South America - what is my grandson? Nor is birthplace an adequate guide - it depends on the accident of where one's mother happened to be at a particular time.

There is no doubt that Jock is correct and the relatives of our new friend from Australia are correct about the frequency with which the kilt is worn in Scotland; I can corroborate that myself. However, generalizations like that can also be misleading. See the article from the Independent cited in another thread - The Secret History of the Kilt - where the wearer, British Ambassador to a range of countries wears his kilt at every opportunity. Note also the Tartan army - Cardiff was recently full of kilts for the Rubgy international in which Scotland were playing.

I suspect that the rude comments received by Steve and EB were as much related to nationalism as anything else. Other posters have covered this well. It seems to me that, should persons - of Scots descent or not - from outside Scotland cease buying and wearing kilts, kiltmaking in Scotland would effectively cease, and should they not visit Scotland the national economy would take a nosedive.

Do not lose heart, my friends.

Well said!

Your post reminds me of a Scottish friend of mine (who still resides in Scotland, and in the Highlands, no less) who has nothing but good things to say (apart from the occasional chuckle) about the various members of diaspora wearing Highland kit. It's also very similar to a comment made by Lord Macdonald at a gathering of the Clan Donald many years ago when some "locals" complained about the Yanks, Aussies and Canucks in attendance wearing kilts:

"The blood is strong -- do you really think thousands of miles and 200 years can erase it?"

T.

[CMcG]

<snip>
"the blood is strong -- do you really think thousands of miles and 200 years can erase it?"

Awesome!!!

[Jock Scot]

Well said!

Your post reminds me of a Scottish friend of mine (who still resides in Scotland, and in the Highlands, no less) who has nothing but good things to say (apart from the occasional chuckle) about the various members of diaspora wearing Highland kit. It's also very similar to a comment made by Lord Macdonald at a gathering of the Clan Donald many years ago when some "locals" complained about the Yanks, Aussies and Canucks in attendance wearing kilts:

"The blood is strong -- do you really think thousands of miles and 200 years can erase it?"

T.

The cynical Highlander would assume that a new roof was required on the castle!