Thinking of Leaving

[English Bloke]

Drivel? Waste of bandwidth? Chaff?

Blimey!!

For anyone who thinks this thread has lost it's value, perhaps they may like to Click Here and see if there isn't something else that takes their fancy.

And if that doesn't fix it, there's always here too

[tripleblessed]

Drivel? Waste of bandwidth? Chaff?

Blimey!!

For anyone who thinks this thread has lost it's value, perhaps they may like to Click Here and see if there isn't something else that takes their fancy.

And if that doesn't fix it, there's always here too

Hear! Hear! And YAAAYYYYY!!!!

[sydnie7]

Drivel? Waste of bandwidth? Chaff?

Blimey!!

For anyone who thinks this thread has lost it's value, perhaps they may like to Click Here and see if there isn't something else that takes their fancy.

And if that doesn't fix it, there's always here too

EB, I tried your first link and was told "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." Do you suggest "drivel" or "chaff" as the more productive?


On a less note, good to see this discussion come up [again] and good to hear that the OP is going to stick around. Without Jake's regular postings, who else will remind us that we need "less talk - more monkey!"?

OK, that one wandered off into territory, too. Maybe I'll go have a sandwich

[Steve Ashton]

This has been a very interesting thread. It was started by someone saying they wished to leave the forum. It is now more about what some individuals feel is wrong with the forum.


People join and leave forums for as many reasons as there are people. Each is an individual decision.

Not everyone will feel comfortable on, or like, every forum.

This forum has a very narrow subject field. The kilt and only the kilt. Some will enjoy that they can discuss one topic in depth without the introduction of other topics. Not everyone will like that this forum has such a narrow scope.

This forum has rules. They were written to keep this forum focused on our chosen subject. Some will like that the forum is kept focused on a single topic, others will feel hemmed in or stifled by the rules.

The only time someone is asked to leave this forum against their will is if they repeatedly violate the rules. Four times to be exact.

Each person must decide for themselves if this is the forum they feel comfortable on. Each person will then make their own decision to stay or to go.


All of the above are true. None of the above are going to change. If you like this forum and feel comfortable, you are welcome to stay and participate all you want.
If you do not feel comfortable, or like, this forum no one can stop you from leaving.



Some people say that this forum must change. That is true. Everything changes.

There are always changes being discussed among the Moderators. They discuss changes to the rules. They discuss changes to the format of the forum. They discuss changes to how they interact with the members.

We have some rule changes that have been under discussion for a few months are just about ready to be announced.

We have a new and exciting addition to the forum which will be announced in just a couple of days.

But what will not change is the scope of the forum. This will always be a kilt forum.
It will not become a religion forum, a politics forum, or a gun forum.

Another thing that will not be changed any time soon is the way this forum is run.
I do not set the limits of the discussions here.
The moderators do not set the limits of the discussions here.
The members are who set the limits.



We have a system where any member can tell the staff when they think a subject or a post has hit the limits of our rules.

To call people "thin skinned" or "whiners" because they care deeply about this forum and take the effort to speak up when they see something they think is wrong is, I believe, nothing more than an attempt to discredit the way this forum is run and an attempt to belittle or shame other members in a hope that they will not use the system.

The staff have discussed this and here are our conclusions.

1) The names of those who use the Report a Post System will always remain confidential.
2) The report a Post system works and will continue to be how this forum is run.
3) We will continue to encourage the use of the "Report a Post" system, and will listen to those who abide by the forum rules and wish to keep it within those rules.


I notice that some people in this thread have made comments along the lines of "the majority have spoken". Perhaps this may be put in clearer context if we look at some data.

In the last 90 days 1,726 members have logged onto the forum and made at least one post.

This thread has had 183 posts by 74 members. I'm sorry but this is not a majority of our active members in even the most liberal sense.

The moderators must look at what the majority of the membership wants. The majority are those who post and stay within the simple rules.

The reports the moderators get are only pointing out the limits of behavior on the forum. Of course the reports are a minority. Most of our members stay within boundaries of the rules. As I pointed out before we have very few reports filed and even fewer cases where an infraction must be issued against a member for not following the rules.



So what does all of this mean? It means that on this forum the majority of our members are who set the tone and the limits of the forum. If the majority tell us that something needs to be changed we will listen.

It also means that the "Juicy" type of threads that have been closed will continue to be closed if our members tell us that they believe those threads, or posts within those threads, have violated our rules.

[Father Bill]

You sound offended Steve. Just checking. ?

[Steve Ashton]

Not at all Father. Tired, yes. Busy, yes. Offended, no.

I am not the one who makes or enforces our rules. I am just the guy who pays the bills.
But as the owner I am sort of the "voice" of the forum. When someone asks a question or brings something up, as in this thread, it falls to me to answer and respond.

I have tried to respond in the same way the posts in this thread have been submitted. Polite and respectful.

I am just pointing out facts. Facts are often dry. Perhaps that is what you are reading into my post.

[Father Bill]

Just checking - I do see a bit of a congregation here for pastoral support. Hang in there, my tired friend.

[Cowher]

I notice that some people in this thread have made comments along the lines of "the majority have spoken". Perhaps this may be put in clearer context if we look at some data.

In the last 90 days 1,726 members have logged onto the forum and made at least one post.

This thread has had 183 posts by 74 members. I'm sorry but this is not a majority of our active members in even the most liberal sense.

The moderators must look at what the majority of the membership wants. The majority are those who post and stay within the simple rules.

You tell us that our voices are not the majority because only 74 members have participated in this thread. Then you tell us the majority is those who post and stay with in the simple rules have we not done that?

[Ryan Ross]

Agreed, Mr. Cowher.

In the last 90 days 1,726 members have logged onto the forum and made at least one post.

This thread has had 183 posts by 74 members. I'm sorry but this is not a majority of our active members in even the most liberal sense.

Statistics are certainly a very helpful thing, or at least, they can be.

With no user names attached, I would be very interested in seeing statistics on how the report-a-post function is being used. How many posts/threads have been reported in the last 90 days. How many individual users have filed those reports? Statistics like that (if said statistics are already a part of this thread, and I've missed them, my apologies).

If it seems that individuals have been doing more than their fair share of reporting (the offending "thin skinned" individuals), without having names attached, I would certainly find it fascinating to know; would others as well, I wonder?

The Kilt Police may not exist, but I would not be shocked to learn that the Xmarks Police are all too real... even if they remain a "secret police".

At the end of the day, I know that what I say here does not count; I am not part of any non-theoretical "majority" that has a voice on this board.

But baring all of the above in mind, I can still live with that lack of say.

I can live with that because this is an internet forum, not a country in which I live or an orginization that I am obliged to be a part of.

I come here and participate because I enjoy it very much. I come here because it pleases me, and if it doesn't please me, I log off.

Is it perfect? I don't think so. Could it ever be perfect? No. Do I expect it to be perfect? Certainly not.

Am I glad it's here and thankful toward the people and organizations that allow it to continue? Yes I am, and I'm proud to be a member here.

So, for my part and in closing, I'll accept that being "thin skinned" can mean many different things... including too much ado about "thin skinned" individuals!

[CDNSushi]

Tobus, your reply was a rather lengthy one, and it's probably best not to argue -- we'll just have to agree to disagree on certain points and leave it at that. I did however want to mention one of your points:

With all due respect, I don't think the OP should "own" the thread.

But that is one unique characteristic of this particular forum -- is that the OP DOES retain some control over it. The mods have always allowed the OP to lock threads they've started... Now, we can debate whether or not that SHOULD be the case, but I know that it is something I've appreciated since the beginning, even if I haven't always agreed with the OP's choices. I've even made use of that privilege on occasion, especially when a thread has veered off-course and started to cause dissent and excessive arguments.

I know that many other forums subscribe to your point of view -- one that says: once a thread's out in the open, it's out of the OP's hands and fair game for anything and anyone. I've also been a member at forums like that... Also ones that don't allow you to edit your own post once it's up... Honestly, I like the system here quite a bit when I compare in that manner!

But another way of looking at it is: the OP had a particular purpose for starting a thread, and if that purpose has been somehow compromised, they should have a right to say "stop." I would offer as an illustrative example, the power of veto in governments.

In principle, I agree that it's good if the OP allows a thread he/she started to run a natural course, but I think it's also good that they are given the option to veto that under certain circumstances. If that troubles people, may I remind them that at the present time, XMTS DOES allow this -- and I suspect that it would take an agreement amongst the mods and Steve to change that policy if people expressed an issue with it...