Civilian Mess Jackets

[CMcG]

<snip>
(So much for keeping my mouth shut and letting others contribute for a while.)

Thanks so much for joining in. I knew the issue of converting mess jackets was one you had considered and you brought up some rather important things for people to think over...

While generally not a fan of kilt jackets that are so short (mostly because I feel they make the wearer's torso look disproportionately small), I have been tempted to get a white mess jacket for wear in the sweltering desert summers.

I think it would help to "beat the heat" - and hope that leaving off the cuff braid and swapping the buttons would remove it from the military uniform standard enough that nobody takes offense at it being worn by a civilian.

The shortness of the waist definitely required an adjustment to (hopefully) balance out the proportions. In the picture I posted, I'm wearing my sporran much higher than usual. Also, a jacket with that short of a waist doesn't work unless the rise on ones kilt is able to match it.

As for beating the heat, I was surprised at how much cooler the mess jacket is compared to my Argyll. I suppose it also helps that the white vest I wore with it is backless...

I believe the Australian Army has a white mess jacket for wear with the kilt. Can any of our Aussie brothers comment from experience on the pros and cons of such a thing?

[macwilkin]

I believe the Australian Army has a white mess jacket for wear with the kilt. Can any of our Aussie brothers comment from experience on the pros and cons of such a thing?

Not an Aussie, but I do know from two friends in Queensland who are masons that Queensland brothers (can't speak for other state grand lodges) wear white eton jackets in the Summer to lodge, and they both report it very comfortable.

The other option for beating the heat in tropic climes & heat is "Red Sea Rig".

T.

[Cygnus]

...
The other option for beating the heat in tropic climes & heat is "Red Sea Rig".

T.

That is an interesting option, but out here where it isn't so humid, it's not as necessary as it is in the Red Sea!

When wearing Red Sea rig with a kilt, would a cummerbund be required? Or could a black kilt belt and formal buckle be substituted?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

That is an interesting option, but out here where it isn't so humid, it's not as necessary as it is in the Red Sea!

When wearing Red Sea rig with a kilt, would a cummerbund be required? Or could a black kilt belt and formal buckle be substituted?

A dress black dirk belt is the equivalent of a cummerbund.

[MacLowlife]

I think Red Sea Rig mostly works for those who don't need it- and, of course, if you are on the Red Sea.

I understand the origins of Red Sea Rig and I think it makes sense in certain environs, much as I understand when a host removes his jacket at a hot party, but I am afraid Red Sea Rig in the kilt mostly comes down to a black tie. And that is a lot of distinction to hang on a narrow strip of fabric.

I like to wear a linen jacket with my kilt in hot weather, to cut down a little on the suffering. I am talking about SC weather, where it has already gone to the 90s this year and will stay that way, with accompanying humidity until sometime in September. Part of life here is taking more showers and sweating through a lot of shirt linen. Sometimes you have to suffer a little for style.

The problem is, waiters in black tie with no jackets look like waiters. Adding a dirk belt doesn't make them look like officers. In most situations where guests and staff are all in black tie, you can tell the difference, even if a guest has removed his jacket. But so much of this forum is devoted to helping people who don't yet have that certain "look" that helps distinguish the two groups. If your full dress clothes came from a business that has "wearhouse" in its name, or your shirt is easy care, just be prepared to help clear the tables.

[macwilkin]

I think Red Sea Rig mostly works for those who don't need it- and, of course, if you are on the Red Sea.

I understand the origins of Red Sea Rig and I think it makes sense in certain environs, much as I understand when a host removes his jacket at a hot party, but I am afraid Red Sea Rig in the kilt mostly comes down to a black tie. And that is a lot of distinction to hang on a narrow strip of fabric.

I like to wear a linen jacket with my kilt in hot weather, to cut down a little on the suffering. I am talking about SC weather, where it has already gone to the 90s this year and will stay that way, with accompanying humidity until sometime in September. Part of life here is taking more showers and sweating through a lot of shirt linen. Sometimes you have to suffer a little for style.

The problem is, waiters in black tie with no jackets look like waiters. Adding a dirk belt doesn't make them look like officers. In most situations where guests and staff are all in black tie, you can tell the difference, even if a guest has removed his jacket. But so much of this forum is devoted to helping people who don't yet have that certain "look" that helps distinguish the two groups. If your full dress clothes came from a business that has "wearhouse" in its name, or your shirt is easy care, just be prepared to help clear the tables.

I don't think I'm that brave to tell a Royal Marine officer he looks like a waiter in "Red Sea Rig", but it's your funeral.

And methinks you misunderstood my reference to RSR -- I simply stated that it was a variant of formal attire in the tropics/"East of Suez". I have, however, seen a Highland variant of RSR in an article on the Clan Campbell Society's web site:

The military version consists of a long sleeved white dress shirt, black bow tie, tartan trews and a silk cummerbund in the regimental tartan (unless this is the very dark Campbell tartan, in which case a red, green or blue cummerbund may be substituted). The civilian version is usually a long sleeved white dress shirt, black or red bow tie and kilt.

-- http://www.ccsna.org/jsep46.htm

When I get my pair of trews in the Campbell of Cawdor/Argyll District tartan one of these days, I might just have to try this look at a formal do in the Summer. Horses for courses...

T.

[Cygnus]

I think Red Sea Rig mostly works for those who don't need it- and, of course, if you are on the Red Sea.

I understand the origins of Red Sea Rig and I think it makes sense in certain environs, much as I understand when a host removes his jacket at a hot party, but I am afraid Red Sea Rig in the kilt mostly comes down to a black tie. And that is a lot of distinction to hang on a narrow strip of fabric.

I agree. I don't have any problem with Red Sea rig, but, because it seems so much less formal, you wouldn't catch me wearing it so long as other guests were wearing their jackets.

I like to wear a linen jacket with my kilt in hot weather, to cut down a little on the suffering. I am talking about SC weather, where it has already gone to the 90s this year and will stay that way, with accompanying humidity until sometime in September. Part of life here is taking more showers and sweating through a lot of shirt linen. Sometimes you have to suffer a little for style.

But would you wear that for a black-tie kind of event? I'd love a linen kilt jacket, but I just don't feel it would really work for formal wear.

If your full dress clothes came from a business that has "wearhouse" in its name, or your shirt is easy care, just be prepared to help clear the tables.

I don't think I'm that brave to tell a Royal Marine officer he looks like a waiter in "Red Sea Rig", but it's your funeral.

And methinks you misunderstood my reference to RSR -- I simply stated that it was a variant of formal attire in the tropics/"East of Suez". I have, however, seen a Highland variant of RSR in an article on the Clan Campbell Society's web site:

I think MacLowlife's point was that it is a difficult look to pull off without looking "waiterly". It sounds to me like quality is the key.

When I get my pair of trews in the Campbell of Cawdor/Argyll District tartan one of these days, I might just have to try this look at a formal do in the Summer. Horses for courses...

Can we expect pictures?

[Galician]

This thread has taken an unexpected but extremely useful turn for me.

I'm being feted on Friday for a special life milestone and being taken to the theater. Of course, I want to go kilted! The problem is that summer is breaking out and the heat index here is supposed to be about 100F with slightly cooler but rainy weather on Friday.

This Red Sea Rig sounds like the anwer to my dilemma of what to wear. But I'm unclear what exactly is worn in this style. Is it basically just a long-sleeved shirt, bowtie and cumberbund in place of a belt?

[Cygnus]

This thread has taken an unexpected but extremely useful turn for me.

I'm being feted on Friday for a special life milestone and being taken to the theater. Of course, I want to go kilted! The problem is that summer is breaking out and the heat index here is supposed to be about 100F with slightly cooler but rainy weather on Friday.

This Red Sea Rig sounds like the anwer to my dilemma of what to wear. But I'm unclear what exactly is worn in this style. Is it basically just a long-sleeved shirt, bowtie and cumberbund in place of a belt?

That's it precisely. Though with a kilt, I'd skip the cummerbund. Some people do wear them, but a dirk belt and buckle (in my opinion) just look so much better.

And if you're feeling adventurous, a red bow tie is a bold but still acceptable accessory with Red Sea rig.

And congratulations on the "special life milestone"!