The Craftsman versus the Industrial Complex

[Moski]

Once upon a time bespoke, handmade shoes were the only available option. And were, within reason, affordable to all but the poorest. Today bespoke handmade shoes can easily top $1200.00 and many will go in the $5k-$6k range. Yet it is only at that price point that traditional quality...devoid of synthetics, cardboard and expediencies...and anything resembling a true fit, can be had.

The problem I see with that model is this. You are Starting at a stratospheric level in pricing. I've no practical use for shoes at that price. Ive never owned a pair of shoes costing over $150 (excepting some Alligator western boots), forget bespoke shoes. The ones I have owned have served me well, and lasted long. For far less than the numbers you posted. In the same manner, having items at the Average Joe price levels makes them available to a larger crowd. I started with an X-Kilt $22, then I got an Amerikilt $95, and tomorrow I close a deal that will open my way into a USAK semi-trad. If I had to start at a $4-5-600 kilt I wouldn't own a one, I don't go anywhere to justify that money. Really, even $200 on a single clothing item is spendy in my house. I'll likely never own a PC, or Brouges or a big hairy sporran and I aint gonna miss 'em.

I own a Ford F250SD. It's not a Bently or some other hand made Automobile. It works for me. It does what i need it to. And I like it. People will buy what they can afford, esp in this economy. Businesses rise and fall with the markets all the time. It's not the fault or responsibility of people seeking what they see as value. There are fewer craftsmen across the board than there were in the past, and yes, most were simply priced out of business. Been happening more or less since the Industrial Revolution. And the future aint bright for a comeback. Not for most. For the rest it's Adapt or Dodo.

As far as Tradition Vs Orthodoxy, I'm a member of the Traditional "kilt as current clothing" crowd, as opposed to the Historical "kilt defined by narrow slice of Time" crowd. I expect my clothing to mate well with my intended use (every day kicking around) and so do others. Things happening "now" are surely fashions. They may well enter the tradition through continued use over time. Some of the things viewed as Traditional were once blasphemous fads or fashions at their advent. I mean really, everyone didn't suddenly start wearing Jabots and Cuffs out of nowhere, and I'm having trouble seeing a greengrocer at market wearing them. And there are those here who can tell you pretty closely the origin of the PC.

[DWFII]

The problem I see with that model is this. You are Starting at a stratospheric level in pricing.

How much do you make an hour? Should a child in Vietnam be forced to work for 10¢ an hour because you don't think shoemakers should make a working wage? *

How is a pair of shoes that cost $15.00 to make better than a pair that cost $8.00 to make?

People who've never tasted, or developed a taste for rib eye are inevitably the most zealous in their defense of "mystery meat" hamburger.

I shop at WalMart as well as Neiman-Marcus.

Some things in life...some experiences in life...are worth savouring and treasuring. A man can be so parsimonious that his whole life becomes crabbed.

*No offense intended, just that we all tend to think the wages that we are paid are justified...even if we are digging a ditch and that the wages others are paid are exorbitant even if they are brain surgeons.

Cheap shoes, cheap kilts...same same...one way or the other they are made possible in our society by exploiting poor people in other countries

[RockyR]

How much do you make an hour? Should a child in Vietnam be forced to work for 10¢ an hour because you don't think shoemakers should make a working wage? *

How is a pair of shoes that cost $15.00 to make better than a pair that cost $8.00 to make?

People who've never tasted, or developed a taste for rib eye are inevitably the most zealous in their defense of "mystery meat" hamburger.

I shop at WalMart as well as Neiman-Marcus.

Some things in life...some experiences in life...are worth savouring and treasuring. A man can be so parsimonious that his whole life becomes crabbed.

*No offense intended, just that we all tend to think the wages that we are paid are justified...even if we are digging a ditch and that the wages others are paid are exorbitant even if they are brain surgeons.

Cheap shoes, cheap kilts...same same...one way or the other they are made possible in our society by exploiting poor people in other countries

I'd like to point out a few things...

1. I make "cheap kilts" (your words) in this country by my own hand, as well as hire employees, paid a fair wage, to make those same kilts. I use cloth woven in the UK where the workers are paid a fair wage. I have not exploited anyone.

2. "Cheap kilts" are not made the same way or to the same quality standards as traditional hand sewn kilts. If the consumer values traditional quality, they will seek out kilts OF that quality (who should be described as such). If the consumer values price above quality, then they will seek out a particular price point and must understand that 'you get what you pay for'. So long as retailers ACCURATELY DESCRIBE what they are selling, then the consumer is well informed and that decision is theirs alone.

Don't get upset with retailers who offer a fair (and accurately described) product for a fair price... get upset with consumers for not having the highest quality standards and for having a lower budget. Also, get upset at the retailers who lie and deceive customers by labeling goods ambiguously.

3. If you shop at Walmart, then you are supporting the exploitation you are railing against in these posts. You may not buy $8 shoes at Walmart, but you are supporting their business practices. They are an octopus... you feed one arm of the octopus, you feed the whole octopus.

[DWFII]

I'd like to point out 2 things...

1. I make "cheap kilts" (your words) in this country by my own hand, as well as hire employees, paid a fair wage, to make those same kilts. I use cloth woven in the UK where the workers are paid a fair wage. I have not exploited anyone.

2. If you shop at Walmart, then you are supporting the exploitation you are railing against in these posts. You may not buy $8 shoes at Walmart, but you are supporting their business practices. They are an octopus... you feed one arm of the octopus, you feed the whole octopus.

Point taken....although I don't shop at WalMart regularly or even by choice. I don't shop at Neiman-Marcus regularly either. I don't even know where the nearest one is located. It was a metaphor...a metaphor for establishing and respecting priorities in your life.

But don't take it so personally...I was talking about shoes.

That said, if your product is as "gateway" as you claim it is, it has to be...on some level (if only price)...competing with imports and WalMart level goods. Either you're not paying yourself or your workers a wage that will sustain you through all kinds of business cycles, that will provide you a "living" and grow your business, or you are making up the difference in ways I don't understand and probably don't want to contemplate.

And just because a fabric comes from the UK doesn't make it quality.

I'm not looking to make this a fight...as I said, I was talking about what I know--shoes. But I also have been in business for myself for 40 + years , own my own home free and clear, and have no outstanding debts.

And I still wear 100% Scottish woolen kilts. Oh...and $1500.00 bespoke shoes too.

[RockyR]

SNIP...
That said, if your product is as "gateway" as you claim it is, it has to be...on some level (if only price)...competing with imports and WalMart level goods. Either you're not paying yourself or your workers a wage that will sustain you through all kinds of business cycles, that will provide you a "living" and grow your business, or you are making up the difference in ways I don't understand and probably don't want to contemplate.

I'm paid fairly (I'm not a millionaire, but I get by) as are my employees (paid roughly 60 to 80% MORE than standard 'cut and sew' operations in the US pay their employees). The difference is in making a product which can be made relatively quickly and stands ON IT'S OWN and has no direct comparison. Ours aren't meant to be direct competition to Pakistani kilts. I learned a long time ago that there will always be someone willing to do it faster / cheaper, so I make it better (and DIFFERENT) and let the chips fall where they may.

And just because a fabric comes from the UK doesn't make it quality.

I didn't say it did. However, in my professional opinion, if you compare the tartan cloth (PV OR wool) made in the UK to the tartan cloth coming outwith the Uk, there is a noticable difference. I have swatches of cloth from Asia, Pakistan, India, etc. in my shop to show customers if they ask about the $50 kilts they saw on Ebay. I'm MORE than happy to let them compare both side by side and judge the quality for themselves.

I'm not looking to make this a fight...as I said, I was talking about what I know--shoes. But I also have been in business for myself for 40 + years , own my own home free and clear, and have no outstanding debts.

And I still wear 100% Scottish woolen kilts. Oh...and $1500.00 bespoke shoes too.

No fight intended here either. Just calling it as I see it and correcting statements.

What are you guys doing inside on a beautiful Saturday anyway!?!? Get out there in your kilts! (Our store is open, so I have to be here... that's my excuse).