Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[creagdhubh]

I've been thinking about getting a tattoo like that of my family's closest scottish clan relation, but I don't know if I have to have permision to use the crest or not... I still think it would be awesome though.

You may certainly use the crest of your chief, encircled by the belt and buckle, but not the chief's crest alone, as it belongs to him and to no other. The clan "badge" you see on my right shoulder, is that of the Clan Macpherson, to which I belong, am a staunch supporter, and play an active role. The Scottish Wildcat you see, is particularly positioned according to the personal preferences of my Chief, Sir William Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD. The crest (as with all armorial bearings) is unique to the armiger and cannot be used by others. Clansmen and clanswomen of the Clan Macpherson are authorised to wear the chief's crest, only if it is encircled by the belt and buckle, with Cluny's (the Macphersons) motto inscribed.

You may certainly do this (have a tattoo done) with the recognised and offical "badge" of your closest clan affiliation, or perhaps your own armorial bearings should you be an armiger-properly registered with the Lyon Court in Edinburgh of course!

Cheers,

[Cygnus]

I've been thinking about getting a tattoo like that of my family's closest scottish clan relation, but I don't know if I have to have permision to use the crest or not... I still think it would be awesome though.

I can understand your hesitation, what with clan affiliation being associated with your surname. The impression that I get from your comment is that your surname isn't one normally associated with a Scottish clan. If that is the case, find the clan to which you are most closely related and try and find the contact information for that clan's chief. You can then write a formal letter asking to be included in the clan's membership. Most of the current clan chiefs seem to be very reasonable and approachable, and I highly doubt that they would turn away a request from a relative to join their clan!

With the chief's welcome and blessing, you could then get the tattoo you want with no worries about whether or not that particular clan "accepts" you.

[creagdhubh]

I can understand your hesitation, what with clan affiliation being associated with your surname. The impression that I get from your comment is that your surname isn't one normally associated with a Scottish clan. If that is the case, find the clan to which you are most closely related and try and find the contact information for that clan's chief. You can then write a formal letter asking to be included in the clan's membership. Most of the current clan chiefs seem to be very reasonable and approachable, and I highly doubt that they would turn away a request from a relative to join their clan!

With the chief's welcome and blessing, you could then get the tattoo you want with no worries about whether or not that particular clan "accepts" you.

Well said, with some very good advice!

[Mike_Oettle]

Many thanks, Kyle, for pointing out the difference between the clan chief’s personal emblem (the crest) and the clansman’s badge (the crest within a strap and buckle).
Time and again I see that people trip over the distinction.
But I should also mention that for people not resident in Scotland, there is no need for them to obtain a grant from Lord Lyon.
In Scotland, Lyon has the power to deface irregular arms.
It is, however, preferable that arms be registered with some authority (even if it is a private association in the US), simply to ensure that they are in fact unique.
Regards,
Mike

[Cygnus]

Taking MacMillan of Rathdown's advice into consideration, this is what I now have:


I tried it with the galley Or, but it just didn't feel as balanced as it does with it Argent; I did, however, change the flag colour from Gules to Or.

The shield looks just fine with three fluer-de-lys Gules, but I felt like something was missing. The lion is a symbol that connects the Swan arms with many MacDonald arms, and having a great deal of MacDonald heritage, I couldn't just leave it out. A lion rampant would, like the galley in the previous version, have been too "busy" for such a small space, so I decided to replace the small galley on the chevron with a lion's head erased Gules langued Azure.

The blazon, to the best of my ability, is:

Azure, between two swans with wings expanded Proper in chief and a lymphad Argent flagged Or with sails furled and oars in action in base, on a chevron embattled counter-embattled Argent a lion’s head erased Gules langued Azure between two fluers de lys Gules; all within a bordure Or; over all a label of three points Gules.

What does everyone think now?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

First and foremost I'd like to say that it really doesn't matter what others think, as long as you are happy with your arms. That said I definitely think this version is better; the red charges on the chevron really bring the arms to life, as does the galley in base. I still have some reservations about the lion's head on the chevron. On my monitor the shield measures 2.25 inches from top to base point; if you reduce it to 3/4 of an inch (the size it might be on letter paper, a calling card, or the rim of a plate) I'm not sure the lion's head erased would be all that legible (it might be mistaken for a bit of current stuck to the plate).

Since a galley on a gold field figures prominently in M'Donald heraldry, might I suggest you consider doing away with the embattled chevron and blazon your arms simply: per chevron azure and or in chief two swans argent, in base a galley. By eliminating the chevron you would at once gain more space for the swans and galley-- which seem to be the focus of the heraldic statement you are trying to make-- while making the full achievement readable if reduced in size.

As far as cadency is concerned, with this proposed blazon, there are three options: (1) using a black line to separate the bordure from the base; (2) using a chequey bordure; (3) and the instance I would favour, placing a small crescent between the swans. Thus, you would inherit your father's plain coat, and your younger siblings could then difference by bordure in the usual fashion.

Back to you!

[SlackerDrummer]

On my monitor the shield measures 2.25 inches from top to base point; if you reduce it to 3/4 of an inch (the size it might be on letter paper, a calling card, or the rim of a plate) I'm not sure the lion's head erased would be all that legible (it might be mistaken for a bit of current stuck to the plate).

Keep in mind that the resolution of your monitor is 72 dots per inch. A laser printer is going to be a minimum of 300 dots per inch and getting calling cards printed off-set by a good printer will be a minimum of 600 and possibly better. In other words, if you want an image to look good at 3/4" high on paper needs to look clear and crisp at about 3" high on your computer.

[Cygnus]

Thank you, Scott, for your feedback - it is greatly appreciated!

I actually posted something much as you described on the first page of this thread (though I drew the bordure counter compony rather than chequey). I like those arms, but actually like these ones better.

The arms upon which I am basing these were granted to James Swan in 1828, the blazon is as follows:

Azure, on a chevron between two swans in chief and a lion passant guardant in base Argent, a heart Proper between two falconer's gloves Sable tassled Gules

It's a pretty busy shield, but I am fond of it. And I'd be very happy if the only charge that is difficult to discern from a seal or card is the lion's head; there are many coats of arms that would be nearly impossible to accurately read at a smaller size due to the number of small charges on them.

I often change my mind, and I will certainly have plenty of time to do so before these arms become permanent; though I am almost certain it will be included as my "desired arms" when I do petition my own arms.

[Woot22]

Thank you, Scott, for your feedback - it is greatly appreciated!

I actually posted something much as you described on the first page of this thread (though I drew the bordure counter compony rather than chequey). I like those arms, but actually like these ones better.

The arms upon which I am basing these were granted to James Swan in 1828, the blazon is as follows:

Azure, on a chevron between two swans in chief and a lion passant guardant in base Argent, a heart Proper between two falconer's gloves Sable tassled Gules

It's a pretty busy shield, but I am fond of it. And I'd be very happy if the only charge that is difficult to discern from a seal or card is the lion's head; there are many coats of arms that would be nearly impossible to accurately read at a smaller size due to the number of small charges on them.

I often change my mind, and I will certainly have plenty of time to do so before these arms become permanent; though I am almost certain it will be included as my "desired arms" when I do petition my own arms.

Just out of curiosity who do you plan on petitioning your arms from? I'm just starting to understand the world of heraldry but still pretty clueless. Thanks.

[Cygnus]

Just out of curiosity who do you plan on petitioning your arms from? I'm just starting to understand the world of heraldry but still pretty clueless. Thanks.

There are a number of routes; many people will assume their own arms and register them with a group or society that records them (such as the American College of Heraldry).

Others (myself included) feel that grants of arms from an officially recognized government authority carry more weight. In the case of those who bear the surname of a Scottish ancestor, are descended from a Scot who had is own arms and bear his/her surname, or who are Scottish citizens, the Court of the Lord Lyon is the place to petition such a grant.

If you're interested in the processes associated with making such a petition, the Society of Scottish Armigers have an unbelievably helpful page with links to some very informative PDFs.