Absurd kilt myths

[Kilted-Marine]

Sir Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw, Baronet, QC, Rothesay Herald of Arms and Chief of Clan Agnew, also makes mention of Clan ‘septs’ in his article ‘Clans, Families & Septs’;

“It should also be said that the various Sept lists, which are published in the various Clans and Tartan books, have no official authority. They merely represent some person's, (usually in the Victorian eras) views of which name groups were in a particular clan's territory. Thus we find members of a clan described, as being persons owing allegiance to their chief "be pretence of blud or place of thare duelling". In addition to blood members of the clan, certain families have a tradition (even if the tradition can with the aid of modern records be shown to be wrong) descent from a particular clan chief. They are, of course, still recognised as being members of the clan.

Historically, the concept of "clan territory" also gives rise to difficulty, particularly as certain names or Septs claim allegiance to a particular chief, because they come from his territory. The extent of the territory of any particular chief varied from time to time depending on the waxing and waning of his power. Thus a particular name living on the boundaries of a clan's territory would find that while the chiefs power was on the up they would owe him allegiance but - if his power declined retrospectively at some arbitrary' date which the compiler of the list has selected. Often the names are Scotland-wide and so it is difficult to say that particular name belongs to a particular clan. Often surnames are shown as potentially being members of a number of clans, and this is because a number of that name has been found in each different clan's territory. Generally speaking, if a person has a particular sept name which can he attributed to a number of clans, either they should determine from what part of Scotland their family originally came and owe allegiance to the clan of that area or, alternatively, if they do not know where they came from, they should perhaps owe allegiance to the clan to which their family had traditionally owed allegiance. Alternatively, they may offer their allegiance to any of the particular named clans in the hope that the chief will accept them as a member of his clan. Equally, as has already been said, with the variations from time to time of particular chiefly territories, it can be said that at one particular era some names were members of or owed allegiance to a particular chief while a century later their allegiance may well have been owed elsewhere.

In summary, therefore, the right to belong to a clan or family, which are the same thing, is a matter for the determination of the chief who is entitled to accept or reject persons who offer him their allegiance.”

[Nick the DSM]

what is the "victorian era"?

[bubba]

what is the "victorian era"?

The period from1837 to 1901 as far as fashion history is concerned.

[ccga3359]

what is the "victorian era"?

1837 - 1901 the reign of Queen Victoria. Followed by the Edwardian period1901 - 1910.

[Monkey@Arms]

what is the "victorian era"?

Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...=victorian+era

Best regards,

Jake

[Nick the DSM]

huh, never new that. thanks guys!

[fluter]

1837 - 1901 the reign of Queen Victoria. Followed by the Edwardian period1901 - 1910.

P.S. to Nick the DSM:

they neglected to add the implied qualification "... in the British Empire." I met an old-fashioned Southern gentleman who would bridle if you used the term Victorian to refer to anything in the US. His preferred term for the 19th century was "American Empire." However I must point out that we didn't really start our empire-building until 1898, when we clipped Spain for Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippine Islands.

[ccga3359]

P.S. to Nick the DSM:

they neglected to add the implied qualification "... in the British Empire." I met an old-fashioned Southern gentleman who would bridle if you used the term Victorian to refer to anything in the US. His preferred term for the 19th century was "American Empire." However I must point out that we didn't really start our empire-building until 1898, when we clipped Spain for Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippine Islands.

Oh, that's right you're no longer a colony. Sorry about that.

[Coemgen]

Oh, that's right you're no longer a colony. Sorry about that.

:buttkick:

[beloitpiper]

Oh, that's right you're no longer a colony. Sorry about that.

Yeah, it's a really good feeling!