Interesting email from an Irish fellow about Irish kilts.

**The Guy in the Kilt at UC** · 11th August 09, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Galician

Hmmm, I've seen this thought pop up in some of the threads where Celtic identity has been discussed (fought over?

) I think that calling trade the spread of culture is like calling Eastern Europeans Americans, because they play rock, and wear tees and flipflops.

It would also be the spread of the language. Like the English language crossing the Atlantic. A lot of our culture comes from those islands (especially the fabulous garments found in the north). Some of it comes from migration, but not all of it. Eventually the two became different cultures, to an extent. I don't know, but I imagine it was the same 3000 years ago.

**GreenDragon** · 11th August 09, 11:28 AM

To quote Steve-O from SLC Punk! "Who cares who started it!?!"

**mouse 1** · 12th August 09, 05:20 AM

I am sorry, I just dont see the reason for the negative feelings this person feels. wearing a kilt is not as common as it should be, regardless of what country one stands on. wearing a tartain in a respectful manner should be seen as decent. I suppose he must feel the same about Americans drinking Irish beer, or eating Irish food, or being paid American Dollars as they consume it.

**The Guy in the Kilt at UC** · 14th August 09, 08:46 PM

Back to the topic (sort of), my girlfriend and I are going to exchange Claddagh rings at our wedding. When I told my (Slovenian) cousin about it, he & his wife said we should do an Irish theme and wear kilts. I guess he was as confused as anyone about kilts being Irish. I am going to wear a kilt, but not because its "Irish" but because I look so good in them. Plus my girlfriend is making me.

Coincidentally, my groomsmen will be wearing the Irish county kilts. I will be in my Scottish county kilt. I think they would still look good in them.

**dfmacliam** · 16th August 09, 08:50 AM

Just an interesting thought I had thought about recently... My Scot roots go back to a family named Claghorn.. which the name is derived from Glegerne, which was taken from military camp with a Gaelic name on the border of "Scotland" and the Romans.. I would assume this area was in the Lowlands, probably in the area of Lanarkshire. If the Gaels had a history to at least 80AD in that area.. wouldn't it be reasonable to assume, Gaels resided in that area?

**macwilkin** · 16th August 09, 09:12 AM

Whilst technically the letter from D. Golden that Terry quoted is correct in the sense that historically, the Scots of Ulster would have never worn the kilt, being the garb of the "Redshanks", he does fail to mention that the so-called "Ulster" tartan, found by a farmer whilst ploughing his fields, was in the form of trews -- so as O'Callaghan points out, "never say never".

And in this instance, I agree with O'Callaghan's post; we must remember that the term Scots/Scotch-Irish came into popularity in the United States as a way to distinguish the Protestant Ulster "Irish" from the Roman Catholic "Green" Irish who began immigrating to America in the 1840s. Before this period, you will find some references to simply "the Irish" of Ulster.

The Scots-Irish/Ulster-Scots have adopted a good deal of Scottish culture as a way to differentiate themselves from their Southern Irish neighbours, including Highland dress, which has also been adopted by their Lowland and Borders cousins -- what Cameronian Covenanter in their right mind, for example, would ever think that the regiment that bore their name would do so in tartan trews, and would march into battle with kilt-clad pipers?

Regards,

Todd

**2176agp** · 23rd August 09, 08:58 AM

Not wanting to stray too far off topic here, but I can tell you that the 'plastic paddy' phenomena is alive and well in Slavic cultures too.

Back many years ago, I won a stack of 45 rpm records from Radio Prague in what was then Czechoslovakia. I played them for some family members who were very disappointed that the records were Slovak or Czech language covers of western pop hits by Abba, Blondie, etc, and not polkas.

Likewise in the mid 90s after Croatian independence, people from Hrvatska Radio TV came to my (Croatian heritage) church to speak about 'the old country'. Several people complained because they only played pop/ rock music and not polkas and waltzes.

There seems to be this mindset amongst some that the 'old-country' is somehow preserved in amber, and that everyone dresses 24x7 in folk costume, has ox drawn carts for transport, and listens to the folk music of the culture only.

The culture of the 'insert your heritage here' diaspora is somewhat idealised and, while worth preserving, is IMHO generally more based on external influences than reality.

Tony

**O'Callaghan** · 23rd August 09, 03:44 PM

A lot of the argument is over when history ended and the modern day began, which is a ludicrous and unanswerable question. A century or a few decades may be recent history, but still history to anyone born after it happened, and to many who weren't. I think Muldoon summed it up correctly.

On another topic that has come up here, I read elsewhere recently that most ihhabitants of the British Isles are mainly of Iberian pre-Celtic descent, i.e. not only not Anglo-Saxon, but not Celtic either. Who knows who is right? I'd wager that we are the sum of all cultures that have passed through, and probably all their genes as well.