THCD Photo Examples

[creagdhubh]

Someone who knows more than I do can comment on the "brown shoe army" of the 20th century, but I would suggest that brown is usually the natural color of leather and as such, ought to be a desirable one. l agree, some of those beautiful tan colors ( whisk(e)y, buff, maple, English tan, saddle, luggage, etc.) suffer mightily in the real world. I think that is the theory behind suede and light colored suedes being the province of the idle rich- nobody else can maintain them.

But honest brown, brown the color of leather that has been maintained and oiled, seems to me to be the logical color of highland dress. Curiously, the shoes in MacLeay are almost never recognizably brown. Some seem to be sandy colored and some are of an indeterminate color, but most are, of course, black. In my fevered quest for country shoes, I was surprised again and again to see black shoes offered with soles and construction clearly intended never to see a bank boardroom. To my mind, they might as well have been patent leather. But I suppose black can always be polished over one more time.

Oh, but I did find something interesting in MacLeay- Two gents described as Forbes-Men seem to be ancestors of mine. Both of their belt buckles and both of their sporran cantles are embossed

LOWLIFE.

At least that's what it looks like to me. I guess the Mac came later.

In reference to MacLeay's portrait of the Forbes men, their waist plates and corresponding sporran cantles read, "Lonach", which is indeed their motto. The Forbes (and Wallace) men still gather annually to this day and it is a real treat to observe. I'm guessing you may have already know this mate...wasn't sure!

As to brown brogues, I love the look of them! Loake, which is my favourite shoe maker, has a wonderfully smart line of full and half brogues in an array of brown colours - eventually I will purchase several pairs, but at the moment, I am completely satisfied with wearing my black Loake brogues with my Highland day attire, and to some, black is the only way to go. The black versus brown debate has already been widely addressed on this forum, so I wont go into all of that again. A fellow Macpherson cousin of mine does own a pair of ghillie brogues in a tan colour, complete with matching laces! They are indeed hard to find, and the soles are black and clunky - not my cup of tea, but they don't look too terrible. There's a photo of him wearing such shoes (with evening attire, which boggled my mind, but nonetheless) in my earlier post in this thread.

The Paul Stuart's look quite nice!

Slainte,

[creagdhubh]

Probably because brown shoes tend to stain easily and look rather bad after tramping around in the out of doors, something that does not occur with black shoes.

Precisely. I currently own four different pairs of brogues, all from Loake. They vary in style by the difference in what type of brogue pattern each shoe has - some are full brogue (wingtip), half brogue (cap toe), etc. They are all high polished black leather with Goodyear welted leather soles. I have owned them for 5 years now, with me only wearing them with Highland attire and nothing else. They are still in very good shape and since they have had adequate time to be broken in, and I take good care of them by using saddle soap, good polish, soft brushes and polishing cloths, cedar shoe trees, etc, they truly fit even better when I first purchased them direct from Loake! I had many years of shoe care experience during my tenure as an active-duty Marine, so naturally any shoe of mine that is leather and can hold a shine, shall be polished (and that goes for anything silver or brass as well!)!

Cheers,

[SlackerDrummer]

Is this the photo you are thinking of?

One of them...

Here's another one:

[DWFII]

I am not posting this to diss anyone, their likes or dislikes, or in response to any particular post. I am simply trying to provide a little privileged information and background.

First, the moment you see the words "Goodyear welted" on the spec/advertising for a shoe, you must understand that the shoe is essentially held together with glue. The Goodyear welting technique is one that seeks to emulate the structure of a handwelted shoe without any of the skill, quality materials, processes or expense that make for a solid construction. Instead of a direct welt-to-upper-to-insole connection, a canvas or linen strip, called "gemming" is glued to a thin, often substandard, and sometimes even "artificial" insole. The welt and upper are then connected to the gemming by nearly automatic machines. Because the gemming is simply glued to the insole the whole shoe is, at bottom, held together with that glue.

What's more, nine times out of ten when a manufacturer decides to utilized Goodyear welting techniques, the need for, and expense of a quality leather insole is called into question. The insole only needs to be a platform for the glue that is used with the gemming. It does not have to withstand the rigours and strains of being the foundation for a solid welted technique. Any shoe that costs the customer less than $500.00 retail, has almost certainly made compromises in this regard and any shoe that costs less than $200.00 almost certainly has abandoned the use of leather for insoles altogether...going instead to leatherboard or fiberboard--a material similar in its genesis to cardboard.

When a manufacturer decides to utilize fiberboard (or leatherboard) for insoles they will almost certainly replace the more expensive leather heels with fiberboard heels. When they replace leather heels they inevitably replace leather heel stiffeners and toe stiffeners, as well.

And then the next step is to look at the cost of upper leathers. This leads to utilizing some form of "corrected grain " leather. Corrected grain leather is created when skins that are too scarred or blemished to be finished as premium, "top grain" are grain-snuffed (sanded) and an artificial top grain is then applied. Usually this consists of some sort of thin plastic overlay.

Patent leather was, historically, a "painted" leather. It is/was the ultimate "corrected grain" leather. Modern patent leather is produced by bonding a relatively heavy vinyl or plastic layer to a skin that would, in other circumstances, be rejected as waste and/or unusable.

You get what you pay for. But there is a very real element of deception on the part of manufacturers and marketeers in that they lead you to believe that the $200.00 shoe of today is the same quality as the $200.00 shoe of the early 20th century was. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The next step is to advertise their products as "faux leather." I fear, however, that there will always be people who will avidly buy into such snake-oil, defend the product as if it were their very own child...and insist that it is of a superlative, hitherto unheard-of quality. Sometimes even becoming outraged at the thought of paying more than $200.00 for a pair of shoes.

[Woot22]

I am not posting this to diss anyone, their likes or dislikes, or in response to any particular post. I am simply trying to provide a little privileged information and background.

First, the moment you see the words "Goodyear welted" on the spec/advertising for a shoe, you must understand that the shoe is essentially held together with glue. The Goodyear welting technique is one that seeks to emulate the structure of a handwelted shoe without any of the skill, quality materials, processes or expense that make for a solid construction. Instead of a direct welt-to-upper-to-insole connection, a canvas or linen strip, called "gemming" is glued to a thin, often substandard, and sometimes even "artificial" insole. The welt and upper are then connected to the gemming by nearly automatic machines. Because the gemming is simply glued to the insole the whole shoe is, at bottom, held together with that glue.

What's more, nine times out of ten when a manufacturer decides to utilized Goodyear welting techniques, the need for a quality leather insole is called into question. The insole only needs to be a platform for the glue that is used with the gemming. It does not have to withstand the rigours and strains of being the foundation for a solid welted technique. Any shoe that costs the customer less than $500.00 retail, has almost certainly made compromises in this regard and any shoe that costs less than $200.00 almost certainly has abandoned the use of leather for insoles altogether...going instead to leatherboard or fiberboard--a material similar in its genesis to cardboard.

When a manufacturer decides to utilize fiberboard (or leatherboard) for insoles they will almost certainly replace the more expensive leather heels with fiberboard heels. When they replace leather heels they inevitably replace leather heel stiffeners and toe stiffeners, as well.

And then the next step is to look at the cost of upper leathers. This leads to utilizing some form of "corrected grain " leather. Corrected grain leather is created when skins that are too scarred or blemished to be finished as premium, "top grain" are grain-snuffed (sanded) and an artificial top grain is then applied. Usually this consists of some sort of thin plastic overlay.

Patent leather was, historically, a "painted" leather. It is/was the ultimate "corrected grain" leather. Modern patent leather is produced by bonding a relatively heavy vinyl or plastic layer to a skin that would, in other circumstances, be rejected as waste and/or unusable.

You get what you pay for. But there is a very real element of deception on the part of manufacturers and marketer in that they lead you to believe that the $200.00 shoe of today is the same quality that the $200.00 shoe of the early 20th century was. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The next step is to advertise their products as "faux leather." I fear, however, that there will always be people who will avidly buy into such snake-oil, defend the product as if it were their very own child and of superlative, hitherto unheard-of quality and even become outraged at the thought of paying more than $200.00 for a pair of shoes.

Goodness, so that is what a $700.00 pair of shoes buys me, rather fascinating. You certainly seem to know your shoes bro, very intriguing indeed sir, thanks for the info.

[DWFII]

Goodness, so that is what a $700.00 pair of shoes buys me, rather fascinating. You certainly seem to know your shoes bro, very intriguing indeed sir, thanks for the info.

Well, to be fair, it is a 'point of view' albeit a privileged one--I have been making boots and shoes for 40 years.

[Woot22]

Well, to be fair, it is a 'point of view' albeit a privileged one--I have been making boots and shoes for 40 years.

Just so I am on the same sheet of music so to speak, which side of the fence do you come down on as far as appropriate shoes for evening attire in a kilt? And which manufacturers do you recommend? When you say you been making shoes for 40 years do you mean running your own business or working for a larger company? If it running your own company I would assume then you just make your own shoes which is pretty sweet.

[DWFII]

Goodness, so that is what a $700.00 pair of shoes buys me, rather fascinating. You certainly seem to know your shoes bro, very intriguing indeed sir, thanks for the info.

I might add that even at $700.00-$1200.00 for top-shelf English-made RTW, you'll still be getting Goodyear welted construction. Of course, these firms try their best to maintain quality in every other respect...usually opting for leather heel stacks, stiffeners, insoles, and prime, top grain calf uppers, etc.. But employing and paying a shoemaker who knows how...and is skilled enough...to handwelt is a non-starter for them. Just too expensive and too slow compared with what an automated "line" can do.

A good hand-welted, RTW shoe (usually made in eastern Europe) will run in the neighborhood of $900.00+ and top shelf bespoke (always hand-welted) can set you back three or four times that...although good quality bespoke can be had for about the same as the Hungarian RTW, even here in the States.

Of course, the best and most easily understood comparison (here on XMTS) is kilts. What does a canvas kilt cost compared to an 8 yard, 18 or 22 ounce Scottish wool kilt hand stitched in Scotland? Are you getting your money's worth? I would argue "yes" but then I'm in the same sort of Trade.

[DWFII]

Just so I am on the same sheet of music so to speak, which side of the fence do you come down on as far as appropriate shoes for evening attire in a kilt? And which manufacturers do you recommend? When you say you been making shoes for 40 years do you mean running your own business or working for a larger company? If it running your own company I would assume then you just make your own shoes which is pretty sweet.

Appropriate? I think that's more or less a matter of taste and personal preference, but I'm not fond of Mary Janes (even though I understand the rationale) and as I understand it ghillies are pretty recent and as Matt said (or at least the way I read him) were "invented" for pipers.

I like what Edward the VIII (DOW) was wearing in that photo over in another thread (Formal Buckle Shoes). And that's what I wear myself...again personal preference. There's a photo of me wearing a pair I made for myself there too. That said, I've never been invited to a black tie event...I don't know or run with anyone in those kinds of circles...and don't expect to be.

Yes, I make bespoke...custom-made to the customer's foot...never worked for anyone else.

I don't mention brand names or denigrate other makers (even if they are manufacturers) so I can't help you there, but see my post above. Just understand that the less you pay the less you get.

[creagdhubh]

I stand behind Loake Shoemakers, England.

Cheers,