Membership Discussion of Possible Change to Rule #12

[CDNSushi]

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.

Please also bear in mind, that the moderators are here to help and serve the members -- not just to be the big, bad, wolf who comes to lock down threads or warn people that rules are being broken...

If, at any point, the OP of a thread feels that their thread has been (or is being thread-jacked), then please let us know; you have the right to request that your thread be locked (if it has served its purpose), or that the mods issue a notice that the thread should get back on topic, or even that perhaps the thread could be split and spun-off into a new thread. That way, those who wish to continue discussing the original topic may do so, and those who have moved on can have their own thread. No matter what though, the best strategy is to communicate with the moderators -- don't just think that the only time you should talk to them are when someone is breaking a rule.

JD

[Steve Ashton]

If I may respond to piperdbh and add to mookien's comment.

It would be only common courtesy, that if a thread is about one topic, others would respect the original intent and refrain from taking the thread off onto another topic.

It would also be courteous that if someone wishes to discuss a second topic that they start their own new thread.



Now a little insight. In the world of forum administers and moderators there are some common topics of discussion. One of these is the subject of trolls.
A forum troll is defined as:
"Someone who posts inflammatory or controversial posts with the intent of provoking others into an emotional response."
Trolls love to push people's buttons and sit back and watch the fur fly.

It is common when a troll is confronted to respond with "Ah, jee, we're just having a bit of fun" or "The juicy threads are the most fun." Trolls love the juicy threads because they are always emotionally heated. Trolls love to sit back and watch the havoc they have started or encouraged.

There is another strategy of trolls. If a thread gets a warning shot across the bow by a moderator the troll will change the topic of the thread so it is not shut down for violating the rules. The idea behind this strategy is that as long as the thread is still open and active all the 'juicy' posts are still there. It is sort of like repeating yourself without actually having to post again.

Please understand that I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am not saying anyone who participated in this thread is a troll. I'm only explaining why I asked my question.

In the end X Marks has always been about respect.
There is the respect we show for our fellow members. Even though we come from different parts of the world have different political or religious beliefs we continue to respect others beliefs. This respect of our fellow members is why we do not bring our personal religious or political beliefs here to X Marks.
We also respect the kilt. The kilt is the chosen topic of this forum. It is what brought us all here and what we come here to discuss. Our respect for the kilt is why we do not post up-kilt photos or post in a way that shows the kilt as the subject of ridicule.
We also respect our forum itself. We try to keep this forum focused on our subject and not allow it to become a free-for-all. We understand that the kilt is not all there is to life but we also realize and respect the others who want to talk about the kilt by not taking the forum off topic.

So back to my question in post 91 of this thread. How far off-topic do you feel the Moderators should allow a thread to go before they are forced to step in?

Do you want X Marks to become a totally open, free to post whatever you want, type of forum?
Do you want X Marks to be run like some other forums out there where yelling and screaming are the norm? Where people feel that the internet is free and so they can say and do anything they like?

Where should the limits be? Where should we set some boundaries?

[Joe I]

I want to say, that I posted this thead because 1. kilts are mentioned in a news article, 2. I thought that it would interest the people here. Not to start any controversy. I do think that in a normal conversation, ppl will mention other things. I have been to sites where I have been cussed at, cut down for no reason other than ppl know that fingers cannot go though the web to throttle a person for their rudeness. X markers are not rude! Even when they dissagree they/we are polite.
Thank you.

[robthehiker]

I don't see any trolling here. The thread evolved, touched other topics, and generally remained interesting.

[McClef]

ppl will mention other things.

Yes they will and if it is only in passing that is normally fine. When we end up with pages of stuff on these other things then the original intent of the thread can be lost.

If the other things are proving a popular topic of discussion then surely it is better for a new thread that specifically covers them rather than taking over and artificially extending the natural lifespan of the original thread.

This does not happen very often but it gives us poor Mods a lot of work when it does.

[Tobus]

Yes they will and if it is only in passing that is normally fine. When we end up with pages of stuff on these other things then the original intent of the thread can be lost.

That's true, but so what? I could understand a desire to keep the original intent of the thread if it's in one of the kilt-specific forums and it's about a particular facet of kilt-wearing. Those threads are important for finding information later and helping others out, and I would agree that they should be kept on-topic for that reason.

But a random conversation in General Discussion? So what if it goes off topic? General Discussion forums are usually for general chit-chat. We are all adults here, and conversations will naturally flow. If it's not a topic that needs to be preserved for posterity and future use, the conversation remains civil, and the person who originated the thread doesn't care, why would we need someone directing the course of our conversation? That can be a bit insulting.

[Father Bill]

Gee! It seems that this thread has been largely hi-jacked by a discussion of thread hi-jacking! Interesting, that! ;)

[McClef]

Certainly the last thing we poor Mods want to do is direct a course of conversation. We expect the Rules to do most of that.

But we are on the receiving end of the Rule #12 complaints that flow in and have to deal with each complaint.

That's why this thread has undergone what it has and continues to do.

Miscellaneous is not the same as a "General Discussion" - it still carries specific threads whose titles would end up as nonsensical over time if they became a free for all.

[Tobus]

Certainly the last thing we poor Mods want to do is direct a course of conversation. We expect the Rules to do most of that.

But we are on the receiving end of the Rule #12 complaints that flow in and have to deal with each complaint.

That's why this thread has undergone what it has and continues to do.

Miscellaneous is not the same as a "General Discussion" - it still carries specific threads whose titles would end up as nonsensical over time if they became a free for all.

Understood. And since you bring up Rule #12, perhaps some clarification might be helpful so we all understand exactly what is meant. It states: "The topic of discussion on this forum is the kilt. Discussions veering off the topic or discussions or photos which stress topics other than the kilt will be subject to removal. " My question is twofold.

1. The clause about "veering off topic". Is this intended to mean that any discussion which goes off its original topic is subject to removal? Or just when it veers off the topic of kilts? I had always interpreted it as meaning only that it referred to topics which veer off of kilts. But if a discussion of kilt hose turns into a discussion of waistcoats, is that a rule violation?

2. Rule #12 notwithstanding, the forum description for the Miscellaneous forum is: "This is where our members can discuss those things in their lives not necessarily related to the Kilt. (Please keep in mind when posting here that we are a community of friends. The idea is to discuss those things which bring us together, not those that separate or divide us.)" That description seems to be a forum-specific waiver for Rule #12 since it says specifically that it's OK to discuss things that are not necessarily kilt-related. So, does Rule #12 apply in this forum or not? Or is it simply a matter of the staff having the discretion to apply Rule #12 arbitrarily?

*edited to add: These questions are not meant to be argumentative, and I hope no one thinks I'm trying to stir up trouble. I'm honestly just looking for clarification on the intent of these seeming conflicts in the rules.

[mookien]

... So back to my question in post 91 of this thread. How far off-topic do you feel the Moderators should allow a thread to go before they are forced to step in?
...

Steve: As owner of the forum, ultimately it is your responsibility, with input for whomever you choose, to define the rules and set the boundaries. The longevity and success of XMTS is an indication that over the years you have done a pretty good job.

My view on "topic shift" largely mirrors what I infer from recent comments by Tobus. If the thread is in a kilt-related forum, then perhaps the rule(s) should be more strictly observed as described by JD in post #10. On the other hand, if the thread is in a "Miscellaneous" category, then as long as the more prescriptive rules are being observed, the general philosophy on "topic shift" should be something akin to Whoopie!

I tend to view threads as conversations between like-minded (in interests, anyway) people, and such conversations often wander. That is a good thing. If ever I get bored with a "new" topic, I can, and often do, simply go away and find another interesting thread.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, you can't keep a good thread down, and this one is proves it. If collectively we decide that it is at a dead end, or boring, or beating a dead horse, then I think we should change the subject.

John