A Viking Kilt!

[Dreadbelly]

I don't know, several of the Viking raders in the Capitol One comercials look like they're wearing a kilt like garmet. Surely a credit card company wouldn't portray history inaccurately.

Adam

They are Pillagers. And they wear a bit of everything, from Greco Roman, to Hunnish, to Norse and Celtic.

And now, sadly, most are out of work.

[motorman4life]

Not wanting to rekindle an old debate, I do not find it logical to believe the Scottish Highlanders developed the kilt it a total vacuum of thought and experience and without regard for any garments introduced to their (mixed) culture in the preceding 900 odd years.

If that were the case, the fact that the Vikings and other Nordic tribes had settled and assimilated with the Anglo-Saxons many generations previous would have to be seen as irrelevant. The fact is, prior to the Jacobite Rebellion, the kilt and other Highland garb was widely distained by lowlanders, considered barbaric and a throwback to the conquering hordes that had come from the north, centuries prior. This well documented and prolific bias against the kilt and other Highland garb would tend to support the premise that the kjilt (“pleated or folded fabric” in Old Norse) or kilte (“to tuck up or a fabric tucked up under a belt” in Danish) or kjalta ("to tuck up garment or to secure hanging fabric with a belt" in Old Scandinavian) has its roots in Viking or Old Norse fashion and possibily had some influence on the Scots that were borne of their loins.

Scottland was at a crossroads in Northern European trade and commerce. The Vikings were as much as part of early Scottish history as the Saxons were a part of English history.

[Ranald]

Not wanting to rekindle an old debate, I do not find it logical to believe the Scottish Highlanders developed the kilt it a total vacuum of thought and experience and without regard for any garments introduced to their (mixed) culture in the preceding 1300 odd years.

If that were the case, the fact that the Vikings and other Nordic tribes had settled and assimilated with the Anglo-Saxons over a century before would have to be seen as irrelevant. The fact is, prior to the Jacobite Rebellion, the kilt and other Highland garb was widely distained by lowlanders, considered barbaric and a throwback to the conquering hordes that had come from the north, centuries prior. This well documented bias against the kilt and other Higholand garb would tend to support the premise that the kjilt (“pleated or folded fabric” in Old Norse) or kilte (“to tuck up or a fabric tucked up under a belt” in Danish) or kjalta ("to tuck up garment or to secure hanging fabric with a belt" in Old Scandinavian) has its roots in Viking or Old Norse fashion and possibily had some influence on the Scots that were borne of their loins.

Scottland was at a crossroads in Northern European trade and commerce. The Vikings were as much as part of early Scottish history as the Saxons were a part of English history.

PLEASE get in touch with a viking group or re-enactment society or the SCA for that matter and put this same question to them.
Your idea will not be affirmed I assure you ,but I do take your point about origins.
I say again dig one up get it carbon dated (to the viking age) and thousands will kiss your feet.

[Archangel]

Not wanting to rekindle an old debate, I do not find it logical to believe the Scottish Highlanders developed the kilt it a total vacuum of thought and experience and without regard for any garments introduced to their (mixed) culture in the preceding 900 odd years.

If that were the case, the fact that the Vikings and other Nordic tribes had settled and assimilated with the Anglo-Saxons many generations previous would have to be seen as irrelevant. The fact is, prior to the Jacobite Rebellion, the kilt and other Highland garb was widely distained by lowlanders, considered barbaric and a throwback to the conquering hordes that had come from the north, centuries prior. This well documented and prolific bias against the kilt and other Highland garb would tend to support the premise that the kjilt (“pleated or folded fabric” in Old Norse) or kilte (“to tuck up or a fabric tucked up under a belt” in Danish) or kjalta ("to tuck up garment or to secure hanging fabric with a belt" in Old Scandinavian) has its roots in Viking or Old Norse fashion and possibily had some influence on the Scots that were borne of their loins.

Scottland was at a crossroads in Northern European trade and commerce. The Vikings were as much as part of early Scottish history as the Saxons were a part of English history.

To take a phrase from Lynch in Scotland, it would not be the first time that modern Scottish history has been created from a mythological past.
There is no argument against belted tunics, no argument against barelegged tunics, none against other cultures' skirt-like clothing, nor against assimilation of foreign words. It's just going to have to be accepted that, yes, out of the blue, a kilt was designed (I'm referring to the standard military design, just so's were talking about the same sort of thing). Many things, discussed many times by many people, had to be in place for that to come about. That was the earliest in history that it could have come about. The English mythologized and the Scots bought into, mainly because most English didn't know the myth, and the Scots scared them. There was many other cultural/legal reasons that come into it.

We have to accept that there is a mythology that we're buying into which is at odds with history. Me, I'm quite willing to lift my kilt at history and carry on.

[Brother Falldown]

They are Pillagers. And they wear a bit of everything, from Greco Roman, to Hunnish, to Norse and Celtic.

And now, sadly, most are out of work.

NO! NO! NO! I am certain most of them are now on Capital Hill.

[Ranald]

I don't know, several of the Viking raders in the Capitol One comercials look like they're wearing a kilt like garmet. Surely a credit card company wouldn't portray history inaccurately.

Adam

I take this to be tongue in cheek..Yes.
What would a credit card company know anyhow.

[bubba]

I take this to be tongue in cheek..Yes.
What would a credit card company know anyhow.

Tongue in cheek for sure. Those Capital One commercials were pretty funny. Better than the ones in the call center.

[Dreadbelly]

Peopl e ask me if I am one of the Pillagers on tv.

Why? :-|

[Lissdan]

I just want to remind you that the kilt and the tartan as such is not a Scottish “invention”. It was frequently used in Europe during the “Celtic” time and also used by Germanic and Scandinavian tribes up to around 1000.
The oldest tartan they have found is from southern Germany.
Of cause there is a special “Scottish Variation” that is the base of the to day kilt. That come with the Celts and stayed as a traditional wear up to the middle age’s and in some accepts a bit further into history.
The first known to wear a Clan kilt or clan tartan was actually a Viking. – Somerled.
The “ Kilt costume “ as it mostly looks to day and used on solemnly occasions (Jacket, Vest, Shoes) is actually a construction by a tailor in London during the 1600 with later development and made to fit the new gentry after the union of the crowns.
The tartan as such was forbidden after Bonny prince Charles attempt to take the crown of the United Kingdom.
(It was forbidden together with the pipes and the Episcopal Church with was the church that supported that revolt.)
When the ban was lifted around 1840 the Kilt Costume as we know it to day got its final formal character.
To day the kit has unfortunately lost it’s day to day were and has become more like something you were for the “show”
I suppose that is because it has become so formal and unpractical with its vests, jackets and shoes so only few brave men were the kilt and tartan in there ordinary day to day life.
That’s all for to day.
Keep the tradition!
Keep the Tartan and Kilt as a practical day to day were.
DAN

[ziggy]

Personally I intend to wear the kilt more than just one every 6 months for "show". The reasons for this perception being out there is probably because you don't see many of them (cost) and and well, it's a cultural specific peice of clothing to a degree. I do think the vast majortiy of people wearing them, especially with tartan wool, would claim to have some kind of connection.

I mean beyond that, alot of people would probably think historical outfits look silly, not up to the time... but to a degree I think the kilt defies this slightly. It can still look extremely spiffy and elegant in a modern context. If you wear it that way, people's thoughts will change.

Personaly it is actually quite possibly I do have some viking lineage, and surely some scottish lineage after that (and connected). Of course this gives me a sense of identity when wearing a kilt, there's a pride on my history behind it....

As with many things discussed here with the kilted, so many details can be ....overthought. It may not be a celtic idea orgininally, but it became one, and that counts!I tghink it helps to not think of history in such a linear fashion....it's often far more fluid than people give it credit for. The kilt as we know it today is most likely has influences from different cultures, and the orinignal "kilt" probably did as well.

Ian