County Cork tartans and Arsenal tartan

[macwilkin]

Caveat Emptor:

http://kiltmaker.blogspot.com/search?q=missouri+tartan

Regards,

Todd

[BoldHighlander]

Caveat Emptor:

http://kiltmaker.blogspot.com/search?q=missouri+tartan

Regards,

Todd

And there you have it ladies & gents!

Thanks Todd!

[O'Callaghan]

Caveat Emptor: http://kiltmaker.blogspot.com/search?q=missouri+tartan Regards, Todd

What I take from this is that Mr. McGill at International Tartans goes his own way and designs his own tartans without any regard for what may be already registered. To be fair, though, the tartan mills do exactly the same thing. For example, there are about a dozen different tartans that claim to represent Ireland, and about half of those are so similar to eachother that it is fair to say that plagarism is involved somewhere.

That's quite apart from the two tartans for every Irish county already discussed, although I think it's necessary to point out that at least those two sets maintain a complete lack of any similarity, aside from perhaps sometimes using the same colours in a different arrangement, which I believe is reasonable given where the colours come from.

I will have to check to see if McGill's Arsenal tartan is the official tartan of the soccer club. After reading this article it is possible that it may not be, and indeed I thought it looked slightly different. OTOH, it matters little if it isn't, as all I had seen previously in Arsenal tartan were dog accessories and I have no dog. That doesn't mean I'll buy it, in fact I'm probably far too cheap, LOL!

The comments on the three different explanations of the poem on the site are a warning that he is economical with the truth. The anecdote about the North Carolina tartan order is also a warning that he may not be able to deliver the tartans that he pictures. The latter is more worrying than a little blarney. The origins of many tartans involve more than a little blarney.

However, what wasn't brought out in the article is that the person who commissioned the North Carolina tartan probably did so because the Carolina tartan is the official tartan of BOTH North and South Carolina, so he probably took the view that NC didn't have its own tartan as such. I have no axe to grind there, with no connection to either state, but I could understand such a PoV.

McGill's view that anyone can design a tartan and call it what they like seems about right to me, and is nothing more than the mills do all the time. I can see how it would upset Matt Newsome though. Some of Matt's crticisms seem valid, e.g. plagiarism and lack of availability, and others not so much, i.e. I care very little if there are two (or more than two) tartans of the same name, although I would prefer to have that information.

[RockyR]

I will reserve my opinions on the tartan designs and relevance themselves, but here's a link to our Irish Wool tartans gallery which shows all of the Irish Tartans (county and "universal ones" side by side. Also, the County CREST tartans have pics of the crests on them...

http://www.usakilts.com/store/tartan...=show&gazgal=2

I hope this adds to the discussion.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Two points re: Irish "crest" tartans:
(1) they aren't crests, they are the coats of arms of the various counties and as such are the copyright property of the Irish government, the copyright being vested in each local (county) authority. Not that the government does anything to enforce that copyright.
(2) not all of the arms are correct; certainly the arms of Dublin are not those depicted.
(3) while the city of Cork has arms, the county does not.

[thanmuwa]

Two points re: Irish "crest" tartans:
(1) they aren't crests, they are the coats of arms of the various counties and as such are the copyright property of the Irish government, the copyright being vested in each local (county) authority. Not that the government does anything to enforce that copyright.
(2) not all of the arms are correct; certainly the arms of Dublin are not those depicted.
(3) while the city of Cork has arms, the county does not.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Regarding your 2 (or 3?) points:
1) Are the coats-of-arms of the 6 counties in the North copyright of the Irish government? I knew that the lighthouses in Northern Ireland belonged to the Southern Government, but I didn't know that one. Cool and thanks for the info.
2) Agree wholeheartedly.
3) That may be technically true, but the county does use the city's coat of arms, you see it on every county team's crest.

On the plus side, the vast vast majority of Irish people will call it Derry (like on your site Rocky) rather than Londonderry as on the House of Edgar one. Much easier on the eye, thank you.

[RockyR]

SMALL HIJACK

On the plus side, the vast vast majority of Irish people will call it Derry (like on your site Rocky) rather than Londonderry as on the House of Edgar one. Much easier on the eye, thank you.

I found it very fascinating that when we were in Ireland this past January, STREET SIGNS to Londonderry had the "London" blacked out. This was true for 75% of the signs or more.

Without trying to be "political", we have followed their lead and list the tartan as Derry. Glad someone caught that and can appreciate it.

AND NOW, Back to your normally scheduled discussion...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Regarding your 2 (or 3?) points:
1) Are the coats-of-arms of the 6 counties in the North copyright of the Irish government? I knew that the lighthouses in Northern Ireland belonged to the Southern Government, but I didn't know that one. Cool and thanks for the info.
2) Agree wholeheartedly.
3) That may be technically true, but the county does use the city's coat of arms, you see it on every county team's crest.

On the plus side, the vast vast majority of Irish people will call it Derry (like on your site Rocky) rather than Londonderry as on the House of Edgar one. Much easier on the eye, thank you.

Er, sorry, but the Cork County Council adopted a seal (in 1899) and that's what it uses. For the record the seal incorporates the arms of the City of Cork surrounded by the arms of the cities of: Youghal; Castlemartyr; Bandon; Midelton; Kinsale; and Charleville.

As far as "county teams" using the arms of the City of Cork... well, that's sports for you! No one ever said they knew anything about heraldry. UP THE DUBS!!!

[BoldHighlander]

Caveat Emptor:

http://kiltmaker.blogspot.com/search?q=missouri+tartan

Regards,

Todd

To add to Todd's post, I just ran across this about Mr. McGill & International Tartans:
http://www.carolinatartan.com/fraud.htm

[O'Callaghan]

I will reserve my opinions on the tartan designs and relevance themselves, but here's a link to our Irish Wool tartans gallery which shows all of the Irish Tartans (county and "universal ones" side by side. Also, the County CREST tartans have pics of the crests on them...

http://www.usakilts.com/store/tartan...=show&gazgal=2

I hope this adds to the discussion.

Thanks, Rocky. It certainly makes comparison easier.