Another lesson

[Spartan]

Ha! Thunderbolt went to one of my favorite places in the neighborhood. I think that I'll have to make a follow-up visit -- kilted! Wonder if the same guy will be on duty?

[Nighthawk]

Ya know... I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, it is inapropriate to ask about someone's undergarments. But on the other, kilt wearing is something that may be completely outside of the realm of experience for the person asking. The undergarment thing may be the one and only aspect of the kilt that the person asking the question is aware of. Personally, I don't get offended. It seems to me that if a person is asking a sincere question, that person is simply ignorant and looking to educate himself. Whenever I'm faced with the question, I simply answer that, traditionally, nothing is worn. If asked what I personally am wearing after giving that answer, I give a coy answer. Personally, I would rather have someone ask me what I'm wearing under it in a sincere and interested way, than be asked why I'm wearing a skirt in a snide way. Ignorant people I can tolerate. Ignorant people can be taught, and if they're asking question, they are showing a genuine desire to learn. We have to remember that we are all ignorant in one way or another. I, for example, do not know a single word of Mandarin Chinese. I therefore am ignorant of that language. And that is the real difference between ignorant people and stupid people- stupid people refuse to learn. They're the ones who say "Hey! Look at the guy in the skirt!" You answer "No, bro, it's a kilt." Stupid people will say "In America, we call those skirts." It's these people that I can't tolerate. They know perfectly well what it is, and yet behave as if they don't. People like your greeter who show an honest interest? Man, I could talk to those people all day. At least he's interested in knowing about the traditions and not treating us like cross dressers.

OK.. Rant over. This was meant more as food for thought than anything else.

[Thunderbolt]

Ya know... I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, it is inapropriate to ask about someone's undergarments. But on the other, kilt wearing is something that may be completely outside of the realm of experience for the person asking. The undergarment thing may be the one and only aspect of the kilt that the person asking the question is aware of. Personally, I don't get offended. It seems to me that if a person is asking a sincere question, that person is simply ignorant and looking to educate himself. Whenever I'm faced with the question, I simply answer that, traditionally, nothing is worn. If asked what I personally am wearing after giving that answer, I give a coy answer. Personally, I would rather have someone ask me what I'm wearing under it in a sincere and interested way, than be asked why I'm wearing a skirt in a snide way. Ignorant people I can tolerate. Ignorant people can be taught, and if they're asking question, they are showing a genuine desire to learn. We have to remember that we are all ignorant in one way or another. I, for example, do not know a single word of Mandarin Chinese. I therefore am ignorant of that language. And that is the real difference between ignorant people and stupid people- stupid people refuse to learn. They're the ones who say "Hey! Look at the guy in the skirt!" You answer "No, bro, it's a kilt." Stupid people will say "In America, we call those skirts." It's these people that I can't tolerate. They know perfectly well what it is, and yet behave as if they don't. People like your greeter who show an honest interest? Man, I could talk to those people all day. At least he's interested in knowing about the traditions and not treating us like cross dressers.

OK.. Rant over. This was meant more as food for thought than anything else.

You know, I agree with you. I think that kilties have at least some responsibility of educating others who ask honest questions. I have no problem with that.

Spartan and I were talking tonight about exactly what you mentioned about sincere questions and off the cuff smarta$$ comments/questions. We both agreed that one who is asking a question our of pure curiosity we'd answer in a sincere way. Not necessasarily speaking to what I am wearing , but that traditionally, nothing is worn.

But one thing that I know is that society is losing it's good manners. Not just the young gen x-ers, but everyone. There are often discussions on this very forum as to what is 'right or wrong' as far as what to wear to certain events, hats indoors or outdoors only, proper this or that, and so on. Most of these questions have a universal answer, kilted or no. But things that our fathers and grandfather knew as proper or normal, has somehow been lost to a large portion of the population.

It is still polite to get the door for a lady or elderly. AND to say thank you when someone gets the door for them.

It is bad manners to wear a hat indoors. Except for ladies, of course.

It is polite to say "Sir", "Ma'am", Mr. Ms. and Mrs. Even if you're not from the south.

It is still impolite to ask about someone's underwear. Kilted or no.

The point is, the gentleman whom asked "What I was wearing" under my kilt learned a lesson today. Hence the title of this thread 'another lesson'. He was embarrassed and will probably never ask a kiltie that question again. I think I gave him a positive, although embarrassing, lesson. He laughed, and I said to have a nice day with a smile.

What would a kilted person have to say to make it clear that the question wasn't appropriate, is at the very least poor taste and was none of their business?

To toot my own horn (which is in poor taste too!), I think I did rather well!

Thunderbolt

[chasem]

I was going to go further, but Nighthawk hit my thoughts perfectly, And, of course, your response helps. On reading the original post, I got a different impression of the situation than what you described later ;)

So, we're in agreement that it is rude to ask about one's undergarment preference, and ignorance should be educated. (basically)

In that case, I apologize if I came across as chastising you for your response, I was mostly thinking "out loud."

[Jack Daw]

Or maybe it was appropriate to challange someone's rude question? See below.



When I turned the table, so to speak, I had a half smile/half perplexed look on my face. Nothing overly assertive, I assure you. The fellow meant nothing wrong, but realized the error of his question almost as soon as he asked it.

Imagine if the question were asked of a female customer walking through the door in a skirt? Oh, boy. I would not want to be around for that.

But hey, I did tell him to have a nice day!

Thunderbolt

Sounds like you handled that just right.

[Cynthia]

Thunderbolt pretty much came back and said what I was going to say.

Yes, honest and sincere questions can be answered (as long as the person answering them feels up to it -- I still say one shouldn't ask about another's undergarments personally, but rather in general if they MUST know and not just a "because I'm curious" thing... maybe they want a kilt or have inherited one and don't know how to wear it... but y'know? Don't start with that question if that's the case!).

In this case, I also felt it was extremely inappropriate because this person is at their job, they are greeting, and they blurted out the question to a customer.

I also felt Thunderbolt's reply was just fine.

I don't have a problem with educating. I just also feel that the whole "look, a kilt, so I should be allowed to do/say/ask/etc whatever I want" also shouldn't be the logical jump. This was all new to me when I first got into it, although I was fortunate enough to have seen enough photos, TV shows and movies to know what a kilt was. I didn't feel the need to ask people what they wore under it... the internet gave me all the information I needed to know to figure that out anyway. My husband and I discussed the situations where he wouldn't go regimental (and sometimes we discuss them before each event to be sure).

[Nighthawk]

I was going to go further, but Nighthawk hit my thoughts perfectly, And, of course, your response helps. On reading the original post, I got a different impression of the situation than what you described later ;)

So, we're in agreement that it is rude to ask about one's undergarment preference, and ignorance should be educated. (basically)

Yeah, same here. I had a mental of a terse "Good day to you, sir." Which is why I posted the way I did. Doh!!

You know, I agree with you. I think that kilties have at least some responsibility of educating others who ask honest questions. I have no problem with that.

Spartan and I were talking tonight about exactly what you mentioned about sincere questions and off the cuff smarta$$ comments/questions. We both agreed that one who is asking a question our of pure curiosity we'd answer in a sincere way. Not necessasarily speaking to what I am wearing , but that traditionally, nothing is worn.

But one thing that I know is that society is losing it's good manners. Not just the young gen x-ers, but everyone. There are often discussions on this very forum as to what is 'right or wrong' as far as what to wear to certain events, hats indoors or outdoors only, proper this or that, and so on. Most of these questions have a universal answer, kilted or no. But things that our fathers and grandfather knew as proper or normal, has somehow been lost to a large portion of the population.

It is still polite to get the door for a lady or elderly. AND to say thank you when someone gets the door for them.

It is bad manners to wear a hat indoors. Except for ladies, of course.

It is polite to say "Sir", "Ma'am", Mr. Ms. and Mrs. Even if you're not from the south.

It is still impolite to ask about someone's underwear. Kilted or no.

The point is, the gentleman whom asked "What I was wearing" under my kilt learned a lesson today. Hence the title of this thread 'another lesson'. He was embarrassed and will probably never ask a kiltie that question again. I think I gave him a positive, although embarrassing, lesson. He laughed, and I said to have a nice day with a smile.

What would a kilted person have to say to make it clear that the question wasn't appropriate, is at the very least poor taste and was none of their business?

To toot my own horn (which is in poor taste too!), I think I did rather well!

Thunderbolt

This is so true in so many sad ways. I never, ever wear my hat indoors. I always defer right of way to the lady, etc. It amazes and saddens me that women tell me how sweet I am for doing so, like they expect me to barge past them. It's expected that I'll push by and surprising when I don't. It's really rather disgusting. Ah well... All I can do is behave like a dying breed and wait for my polite bretheren to slowly go extinct.

[Smayniac]

As I mentioned in another thread recently, Scooby (nine years old this month) was asked several times what he wore under his kilt at a party we attended. As I expected "the question" to arise, we had rehearsed some nine year old appropriate answers (no lipstick!) I was asked once, by the husband of one of Scooby's questioners, so that I could give the answer we had rehearsed with a straight face.

At the November NorCal kilt night, when I was the last kiltie left in attendance, a woman said to me "All these men in kilts and here am I without my mirrored shoes." In both cases, the "question" was asked in a humorous, or even flirtatious manner. In such a case, I'd like Scooby to respond in kind.

Bob

[Nighthawk]

As I mentioned in another thread recently, Scooby (nine years old this month) was asked several times what he wore under his kilt at a party we attended. As I expected "the question" to arise, we had rehearsed some nine year old appropriate answers (no lipstick!) I was asked once, by the husband of one of Scooby's questioners, so that I could give the answer we had rehearsed with a straight face.

At the November NorCal kilt night, when I was the last kiltie left in attendance, a woman said to me "All these men in kilts and here am I without my mirrored shoes." In both cases, the "question" was asked in a humorous, or even flirtatious manner. In such a case, I'd like Scooby to respond in kind.

Bob

OK... Asking that of a child is way beyond the bounds of anything even remotely appropriate. How disgusting- has society really fallen that far?

Anyone asking that of my 10 year old son is liable to find my size 12 lodged firmly in his colon...